T5 will never happen.

No indeed, but a lot of other things will happen, including a few things that sensible people have dismissed.

I have previouslly written and submitted a lenghty list of changes and additions and reasons thereof to GW. Not exactly holding out hope, but some of my past submissions have made it into empire and beast books in some format....synchronicity perhaps, but you never know...

You know... when I was a kid I used to unwrap my Christmas presents and then carefully re-wrap them and place them exactly back as I found them. I hate when people do things like this. "You will love your present even though it wasn't something you asked for."

Avian... must you keep dropping hints without stating more factual information or at least how you know this?

+1 T is too big a change.

+1 S to all, is much more in keeping with the fluff (even a human / elf hero is nowhere near as strong as an ogre bull!)

I agree! Avian, do you know something, or is this just an exercise in wishful thinking? From what you "know", do ogre players have reason to be excited / optimisitic, either in terms of WHEN the book will come out or what it will contain? You are going to make me go check The Stronghold to see if you are more explicit over there.

I know some people who know some people who robbed some people.

Look for better equipment, the option to fight in a new formation and significantly fewer restrictions.
Shame about the changes to fear.

I'm quite excited, both with regards to timing (though I'll have to juggle painting my chaos AND ogres while changing diapers) and the book contents. And the models.

I really don't see how any "quick fixes" can fix the Ogre Kingdoms. There simply isn't enough variety in the list concept currently. They need new units that are more obviously different and viable to use.

Changing daipers!!! Either Avian has become fecal incontinent, or congratulations are in order!

Ack, what does this mean?!? Ogres are losing the Cause Fear attribute? They would absolutely be hopeless against VC and DoC then! Don't do it, GW! I guess they could give them an MoS-like ability of Immunity to Fear, but still...

Ogre fear is hardly crippling. We rarely ever outnumber someone, unless we have pounded down the unit, in whch case they SHOULD be running.

Avian's statement sounds more to me like the rules for Fear itself are changing - which would affect Daemons, Vampires, Ogres, and all. Which could be interesting.

Pretty much every reliable source says fear will be toned down in 8th. Ed.

I thought most of those were wishlisting?

Quick fix? Play better.

Aside from that, ogres only really struggle IMO with large fliers. There's nothing to pin them down. Sure dice can go horribly wrong, but depending on the build, they can fare very well against mid-tier armies and scrape draws against the top ones, or winning with some good play.

So maybe a siren song? Leadbelchers at s5? Anythind to hold off the dragon / BT and they would be very competitive. Sure 3 butchers and a tyrant with tenderiser plus a bunch of ironguts would be the main build, but then how many WoC or HE builds do you see?

That fills me with nostalgia for the good ol' days.

Agreed, but I wonder what global change he could be referring to which he would bemoan?

Loss of autobreak seems to be the common theory.

If we are going for wish lists.
Just reduce the points cost....works wonders to have an additional 10+ ogre models on the table.
Prehaps a grind attack each turn at the basic strength would be a nice option instead of worring about changing states. Would trumph ASF, and make for less needs for ranks.
Ignore panic caused by non fear causing troops?. meh.
Still with 8th coming out and large blocks of troops being needed/wanted, fear being lessened, who knows what will work?.
Anyway it may all be a moot point if Ogres are comming then the army book would be set. As Avian (the tease) has mentioned things I suspect it's the next one out.

Last some predictions....we could see the following things, no need to take panic test until you lost 50%-25% of the unit. All troops in a unit get to fight in combat, spears doubly so. Units are all stubborn. Movement is changed to make troops faster and more flexible. Which might be why troops are being ranked up now instead of being skirmished. ie beast herds, jezzails.... The hint that the game will be quicker implies deadlier IMO. ie back to 3000pt games, which all harks back to 3rdED hhmmm... Space Hulk anyone??.
Don't be surprised at units being hit in the flank only having thier troops in base to base fighting back, where as the opponent gets all his troops. Makes a nessesity for having a good battle line.

Not saying anything above is going to happen, but the feeling I get is that this is the general direction we are heading.
We shall see HUH.

Make ogres all units of 2+ rather than 3+, and fix bull charge to just be impact hits + 1 ST for each model behind them.

Back to the quick fix topic...

I did just remember that somewhere, someone posted points handicaps for different armies. I.e., in a 2000 point game DoC would only get to use 1800 points while Ogres got 2200 or something like that. That might work a lot better and be an easier sell to your gaming group than making up your own rules.

Anyone have a link?

I don't want to hijack the thread,...

But, wow. If that is true, Daemons and Vampire Counts will drop off of the tournament scene, leaving Dark Elves heads and shoulders above everyone else.

Yes, because Daemon armies keel over and die whenever they meet someone who's immune to fear.

See everyone - sarcasm does work on the internet

T

Heh, I think it worked just fine, too. Besides lone-hero combat, how often does a demon unit outnumber you? Removing auto-break from fear will hardly take the shine off DoC dominance. Vampires it will nerf significantly more, but that will be okay; then people can stop griping about them all the time.

I think you're referring to the ETC tournament rules, which i highly support. Daemons and Vampire Counts get 2000 while Ogres, Orcs & Goblins and a few other races get 2500 (though I doubt Beastmen will continue to receive this). Everyone else gets 2250. Dark Elves get the normal 2250 -- but there is also comp scoring added to the mix.

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=58933

IF global changes to Fear will lower the hitting power of Ogres, does that mean we will have to wait until after 8th edition to see Ogres?

Or does that mean they will come out just before 8th only to be nerfed when 8th drops? Sound familiar? Look at the Ogre army book. See all those bulls ranked four across? Yeah. Doesn't work in 7th ed.

SOMETHING to boost combat rez would be nice -- even a banner like Daemons have -- adds +d3 to combat rez.

Plastic sabretusks as light cav?

Some of the flavorful gnoblar units from the Gnoblar Horde list?

The army books being released nowadays are done so with 8th edition very much in mind.

This is not the time for panic. Here, have an improve gut plate.

Man I hope they dont change fear too much...its too easy for other armies to ab/use it, but often its the only thing going for ogres!

By "nowadays," how far back are we reaching? LM? WoC? Earlier?

The further back we go, the more the designers would have know about what the 8th edition rules were going to be like, so it is a matter of degrees.