The ninth age

Platform for development and feedback of the ninth age project

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Maetco
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Re: The ninth age

Postby Maetco » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:13 pm

Pip Hamilton wrote:I could wishlist a bunch of things I'd love to see put into this version but I don't think that would be useful at this juncture. The only suggestion I have to make right now is a logistical one, and that is that the 9th age should get its own webspace as soon as possible. Hunting for the current ETC comp has always been a bit of a trawl, it would be great if the resources for 9th age were centralised and easily accessible. Great rules are half of what we need, the other half is an easy route for people to start playing and keep playing so that the community stays a healthy size.


You stole my line. There is no point putting all this effort into the project just to have a situation where 5 % of the gaming community has heard about the existance of the project and 20 % of those know where to get the end user product.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby Diablo_DF » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:13 pm

MightyM00se wrote:https://www.dropbox.com/s/4gill6j662g5uq7/WHFB%20Bretonnia%208th%20edition%200.1.pdf?dl=0

Been busy this week. Mainly arguing about Battle pilgrims. But this is where we are up too right now.


Just saw this thread now. Long time bretonian player here. I haven't got much time but will add something about what you did to questing knights.

The "Attention of the Lady" rule I like. It gives something unique to the questing knights other then the plain old "reroll psychology". I feel like it might make them a bit too strong in certain matchups (daemons, undead). I play them at the moment and feel only slight changes are needet to make the worth 28 points. If playtesting supports this I'd think about changing it to first round of combat or adding further conditions to the rule similar to sisters of slaughter's dance of death, f.e. rerolls only against enemies with higher strength/toughness.

The basic idea behind "skill in arms" I like as well. My questing knights would see the table even more often if 8th edition still allowed me to pick sword & board in combat @ strength 4. I don't think the skill at arms rule fits the questing knight image though. They were never weapon masters. In 5th edition they were just knights with lances and more fleur de lis. In 6th GW centered their image around the two-handed sword. It was always just one weapon at a time though and they never dual wielded. Last but not least, I think one special rule (Attention to the lady) is quite enough for one unit. I'd recomment giving them "questing swords" (~halberds) and allow them to switch to lances.

Just some hasty ideas.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby TheTrans » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:07 am

Just flicked an email to theninthage email, just wondering what you boys on the forums think.

"Just a few things I was wondering (little biased due to being a VC player). Is there any way/chance to rejigg the crumble rules, I thought maybe 2 options.

To allow unstable units to multi charge maybe make it when losing a combat, unstable units only crumble by the wounds done to them. This is to stop say, my zombies and blood knights fighting a block of infantry. The enemy put as many attacks as possible into the zombies and none into the Blood Knights (/vampire lord/black coach/any expensive unstable unit) thus winning combat by say 5, the fact that the blood knights all crumble to dust even though they sustained no wounds then seems a bit unfair to me, but hey, biased.

Or maybe (not sure how well this would sit with people), make vampiric units within the army Stubborn instead of unstable (with a special rule allowing the joining of unstable units etc). This would therefore negate the horrid crumble issues mentioned above and IMHO actually allow the VC to get some use from a BSB and holding ranks etc

Thanks in advance and good luck!"

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Re: The ninth age

Postby MightyM00se » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:08 am

double post. Sorry.
Last edited by MightyM00se on Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby MightyM00se » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:09 am

realnoob wrote: Also, will Arbalests be replacing longbows for your army, or will you have both? Are you looking to keep the 6th edition 'feel' of the army, or will you make them more like the original faction Brets replaced and have foot knights and the like?


With our update we have a couple key Mandates (ive been a bretonnian player since 1995 :P.. its my only fantasy army)

1) They must not become OP.

2) they must remain true to post anthony reynolds fluff. So a lot of our inspiration moving forward is coming from Black library/FFG Knights of the grail. The 6th ed army book and the companion book series by Anthony Reynolds (Spiritual liege of bretonnia)

3) "Bloody peasants!" "OOOH you seeing this, the violence inherent in the system" - There must be the strict dichotomy of Knight/Peasant. To that end, by fluff there were few knights who ever went on foot (there were some knights of montfort)... but given in the closing of the age Louen Leoncour himself increased Jousting specifically, and couple that with the removal of squiring from 1995-2003, with errant knights essentially self training and are given a horse from the get go there will be no foot knights.

There will be a Battle pilgrim character (armane the zealous *already got designs for this character for 3ding, printing, body work then casting... and will make him available as resin is cheap as chips*), or some work on the battle pilgrims down the path.

It was raised then, how do i explain the mounted yeoman. They were a holdover from the "mounted squires" from the 1995 edition and even the french/brits had mounted man at arms. They served a crucial battlefield role in both real life and as well with bretonnia. Consider, no errant knight would find themselves as a scout when there was glory to be had down the centre, nor would landed knights and lords relegate themselves to a flank. Peasants with nags is the solution.

As for the crossbowmen, these would not be replacing long bows but serve as a mid range hard hitter ranged unit, we are still working out whether to give them only a range of 18" as they would not be as good as their empire counterparts. Drawbacks given to them are move or fire and a shorter range at 7 points. We feel the Str 4 makes them still a worthwhile asset, but doesn't remove the need for long bowmen. (see 100 years war) - it also fills the short fall of long bowmen as bretonnian ones do not go up to str 4 at half range.

as for the balance of the hunting dogs vs the mounted yeoman. Having to be scratched to a unit of bowmen and being forced to charge, with the possibility of running away means that all they serve is a momentary 5-10 point distraction for a unit that may be on its way to charge bowmen, without the staying power of a goblin fanatic.

4) Any unit additions must be playtested... alot. As it is we are not moving on from phase 1 of our plan until we have had the current new stuff put up against one of every army (my group are a combination of hard core tourney and fluff players... and every army is represented in great number). They must adhere to rules number 1-3 before they are considered. And have a guide on how to convert or the ability for them to be made easily.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby MightyM00se » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:22 am

Diablo_DF wrote: I play them at the moment and feel only slight changes are needet to make the worth 28 points. If playtesting supports this I'd think about changing it to first round of combat or adding further conditions to the rule similar to sisters of slaughter's dance of death, f.e. rerolls only against enemies with higher strength/toughness.


I can understand that, i still dont think its that OP but i am still playtesting the queting knights (got a few more weeks of that to come yet. But i will pass on this suggestion to the group.

Diablo_DF wrote:It was always just one weapon at a time though and they never dual wielded. Last but not least, I think one special rule (Attention to the lady) is quite enough for one unit. I'd recomment giving them "questing swords" (~halberds) and allow them to switch to lances.

Just some hasty ideas.


That would make things a bit easier. But i feel they should be able to use their sword and board. The ability to switch between sword/board and questing sword would be enough i think. And then not give them the lance at all (its not in their profile)


Should i move my Bretonnian discussion to a new thread?

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Re: The ninth age

Postby montegue » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:29 am

I registered to comment here. First off, MY HEROES. Thank you for taking this on. I have a lot of faith in your ability to work out something fair, balanced, and fun.

I'm' almost exclusively a dwarf player, and I play them casually and competitively. I'd like to offer some ideas.

- Movement. It's not so much a lack of M4+ infantry that's the problem. The problem is a lack of diversity in choices, or a lack of some way to resolve the move problem with some other mechanic. I think you have some options -

- Just make them M4. It's a minimum Move stat, it wouldnt' offer a huge advantage over most infantry, and it would put them in line with other armies.

- Add cavalry or monstrous cavalry (mantic makes dwarf cav, Scibor has bear cav). Put these units in direct competition with dwarf shooting (special and rare, respectively) and make them fun and good units.

- Dwarfs need real access to the magic phase. Metal, Fire, and Rune Lore. Lore of Runes should be required before you can take any other lore, like Maw is for ogres. You can base the lore on buffs and debuffs from the Anvil. Let the Anvil of doom Become an in unit chariot like the Cauldron. Give dwarf players choices, and you'll see less gunlines. You can easily change the Rune of Spell Breaking to a Master Rune and then let it Eat the spell on a 4+ for 50 Points. Great item, strong, in keeping with fluff, no double scroll.

- I know a *LOT* of dwarf players really miss the Master Rune of Kragg the Grimm. We can't make a big old rune axe, and that sucks. I also know that most dwarf players were deeply disappointed by their in-race Ancestral Heirlooms. Something that adds strength would be nice.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby Pwnahontaz » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:19 am

I really like all of the changes so far =D> , although the wording could use a touchup in many cases - it is very wordy ATM i feel.

I don't feel 3x march for dwarfs is too much of a gamebreaker, and i do think it could add something to make dwarves a less static army in general. However i think you should be carefull giving the massgyro+msu+cannons-list even more mobility.

A thought on skaven: To make more different builds viable in a competitive setting, without changing too much, giving them access to some rulebook lore might be a cool idea. Heavens and Shadow springs to mind from a fluff point of veiw, although the latter (in it's "8th form") would have way too much synergy with the army to not be borderline OP.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby fjugin » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:01 am

Jesterhead wrote:Hi Erik,
how come are you thinking of implementing the new AoS units and miniatures? What are you thinking about round bases in a rank and file system?

The most important goal of this project is to try to keep the game alive. We understand that new miniatures and rules are a important part of that.
In the first versions, here we will focus on updating rules for existing stuff.
In later version, we plan on adding AoS minatures, create rules for old minatures (dogs of war). Depending on what type of releases we will see from AoS, we might even look at other miniature manufacturers.

Pellegrim wrote:I think these results can also greatly help The Ninth Age - if they are open for suggestions. It would be a shame if major effort where made - but the results would not match general consensus, if there is such a thing.

Yes, that is indeed what we are want.
The poll might be a little late, and unless it gets hundreds of answers, might not be such good incicator of what thw majority wants.
Anyways, keep us posted on the results.

Pellegrim wrote:Also, we developed a generic model that can quantify any build you insert. It won't surprise you that a hammerer costs between 20 and 21,5 points, depending on how you tax abilities. The model cuts away all meta and special/rare discounts. It is a pretty complex model, but is survived some major tests. It can handle all stat combinations, weighed for gear, abilities, mounts and magic allowance. This allows you to compose an army without any restriction and play a game that was balanced better then any of the previous versions of warhammer. Do I have to proof to say this? Yes. Why? The model calculates points based on large sample of current (non-broken) builds (monsters, infantry and characters) that have been adjusted for meta (army specific) discounts. Then it tests combat results and indicates if the model cost should be adjusted. Feel free to shout out a build and I'll return the weighed costs.

Sound interesting, tell me, what would a chaos knight cost using that?


Pip Hamilton wrote:Just want to chime in to say that I'm really happy to see such a well-organised group taking this project on, and that I particularly like how the rules are typeset in LaTeX! I'm a member of Maelstrom's gaming club and like him I'd love to help out with playtesting if playtesting is required.

I could wishlist a bunch of things I'd love to see put into this version but I don't think that would be useful at this juncture. The only suggestion I have to make right now is a logistical one, and that is that the 9th age should get its own webspace as soon as possible. Hunting for the current ETC comp has always been a bit of a trawl, it would be great if the resources for 9th age were centralised and easily accessible. Great rules are half of what we need, the other half is an easy route for people to start playing and keep playing so that the community stays a healthy size.

I am sorry, but I must disappoint you, we are moving to google docs instead of LaTeX. Reason is all authors can work on the same document at once, and there are some handy commenting tools.
Unfortunately, that means the beautiful layout of LaTeX must go :.(

We are looking into creating a "9th age" webspace


montegue wrote:- I know a *LOT* of dwarf players really miss the Master Rune of Kragg the Grimm. We can't make a big old rune axe, and that sucks. I also know that most dwarf players were deeply disappointed by their in-race Ancestral Heirlooms. Something that adds strength would be nice.

Please remind me (I don't have the old 7th edition dwarf book), which item was Master Rune of Kragg the Grimm?
Erik Aronson
ETC TEAM SWEDEN 2011 (Skaven), 2012 (Empire), 2013 (Beastmen), 2014 winners (Skaven), 2015 (Skaven)
Author ETC AR 2014, Swedish Comp System and The 9th Age

Pellegrim
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Re: The ninth age

Postby Pellegrim » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:26 am

@ FJugin, will send you most recent voting results (incl. deviation per question)

For a warrior with halberd and -1 to-hit, the model spits out 24,5 - 25,5 points, depending on how you tax "-1 to hit. The effect of the larger base size is very small (because it is a heavy armoured unit).

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Re: The ninth age

Postby Pellegrim » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:50 pm

PS - The model can be adjusted for any gaming system - I also re-worked it to match a new IP-free gaming system called Forge of Fantasy (very promising also).

I've been asked to adjust the model for AoS ..... but somehow it does not feel right to help fix a broken game, that GW launched as a natural evolution of WFB ..

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Re: The ninth age

Postby AlexCat » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 pm

First of all, great initiative, guys, I was very happy to hear about it in these troubled times. Reading through your WiP document, I got very excited - new magic rules and lores look great! Eager to test these rules. I'm not sure if rulebook is not enough for the first installment of this product, but thats up to you. Certain problems within armybooks shoould be addressed surely. Still, while I fully support cutting edges of the most broken stuff like you did with BotWD, warlocks, DP... I'm not really sure its a good idea try and deal with 'underpermorming' ones. Especially changing not the cost, but the rules. The could get subjective pretty quickly and will meet mixed responces. You're fixing Chaos Knights - why them, not Ogres of Forsaken? Why Swordmasters and not Spearmen?
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Re: The ninth age

Postby NEUTRO » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:04 pm

Hi,

FIRST apologize for my English. I'm using the google translator

I'll give you some ideas if you are useful, we discussed with my fellow players.

High Elves
- The bane for rule cavalry spearmen
- BS magic silver helms 25 pts
- BS archers magic 25 pts
- Cavalry bane & bs 25 pts for lother is guard

- Tiranoc chariot to core units and 0-2
- Sisters of Avelorn access musician and banner

CHANNEL ON STAGE MAGIC
- Wizards and magic level 1-2 units (warlocks, sisters ..) chanenelling 6+ again after throwing the dice to 4+ to add a die to your pool.
Reason: it should not be as easy to channel more experienced wizards that novice magicians.
Avoid spam lists lvls 1-through units.

MISSCAST

- It is too devastating dysfunctions table to pull 5 dice. This deberiais review it, which hurt the miscast but do not lose the game for it.

3 - ok
4- ok
5- ok
6- caster, wizard s reduced level 1
7- ok
8- caster Loses d3 magical wound. no saves allowed. Loses d3 dice. Loses or caster 1d6 wounds without armor save

Demons

- Skull cannon go to 165 pts
and Bloodletter to HP3
reason: I caroo like ogres, with particular salvation, and ability to heal.

Bretonnia
- Champions of the fair: This unit in turn of charge, repeat to hit.

Khemry
- Ushabty go to 35 pts
- Morgasth be construct creature
- Golem scorpion to 80 pts

chaos
- Forsaken to 17 pts
- Hellstriders of Slaanesh to 18 pts

Skaven
- Doomrocket to 50 pts


magic items
Crown : 60 pts
standard of discipline : 25
razorbanner : 40pts

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Re: The ninth age

Postby montegue » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:28 pm

The Master Rune of Kragg the Grimm was a 20 point master rune that allowed you to put runes on a great weapon.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby Overhamsteren » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:26 pm

Nice work so far, here's some thoughts:

Will Overwhelming Power have some effect against the almighty dispel scroll? I think a dispel scroll should at most work on 4+ against Overwhelming Power.

If you are not changing the rules for casting/dispel bonuses being equal to caster level will lvl 4 mages see a significant price increase compared to lvl 2 mages?

Why not let Killing Blow deal d3 damage against Monstrous Cavalry? Will it work against a character riding a monster?

Will there be more emphasis on flank/rear charges?

(I might be a bit rusty, Disrupted is when a unit with 2+ ranks attacks into the flank/rear right)

Maybe a disrupted unit shouldn't be allowed to combat reform even if winning combat.

A disrupted unit could be easier to damage and/or have penalties to fighting, like:

-If a unit is disrupted from the flank then all attacks against it(from any direction) has +1 to hit, +1 to wound and armour saves have an additional -1 modifier. If disrupted from the rear all values increase to 2.

Some thoughts on charging and double flee:

If a charging unit redirects its charge and the 2nd target flees behind the 1st target then the 1st target can be caught and destroyed by the chargers 'as normal'.
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Re: The ninth age

Postby Bugman » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:36 pm

http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Dwarf website in the old world, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, gallery and the infamous warhammer armies: Diaries!!!!
Feedback Thread

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Re: The ninth age

Postby MightyM00se » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:48 am

Moved my bretonnians over to

"http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=129948"

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Re: The ninth age

Postby Goatman » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:01 pm

A few thoughts on Beastmen:

General thoughts: according to fluff, all beastmen should have the forest strider rule. As an army, BM are a combat-oriented army, which has a good domain of combat and movement. However, currently BM suffer so much against any flying thing. Chalice of dark rain should also provide one turn anti-flight protection, and we should have Cygors available as a true balanced-cheapish option. Also access to lores of chaos and fire would help dealing with it.

The herdstone should probably something like: +2 to casting at 9", rather than adding so many dices. A slight point increase (to 55) would force BM to use a GBS to carry it.

With Marks of Chaos, beastmen are much more competitive. However, there are still way overcosted units:

Bestigor, Harpies, Gor, Ungor Raiders and Ungor are pretty balanced. Doombull and both shaman have correct point costs.

Tuskgor charriot is slightly overcosted. For a charriot, the main attributes are S, impact hits and M. Having only M7 makes them worse than goblin charriots, which are 30 points cheaper. As it has better fighting capabilities once in combat, 70 points would be more accurate.

Beastlord, Wargor are still ok, although could be slightly cheaper to compete for the slot other than giving L9 or being a BSB

Gorebull is overcosted. 140 seems more correct choice

Centigor - very overcosted, could possibly be 20 points and fast cavalry. Remember it still has Ld7

Minotaurs - very overcosted. They're killing machines, but easily killable for 55 pts. Should probably be 45-48 pts with equipped light armour. +4 for heavy weapon, +2 for heavy armour upgrade/shield/ad. hand weapon

Pumba charriot is overcosted, compared to gorebeast charriot, it hits less, it is less resilient, and costs 20 points more (with just +1M wrt gorebeast )

Pumbas would be ok-ish if they had mark of slaanesh/khorne. Their main concern, which makes them almost unplayable, is that they must stay within 12" of the general, or flee at the enemy's first blood. Making them inmune to panic or allowing them for marks of chaos would make them playable again.

Giant... well ya'know...

Jabber very overcosted and very easy to kill, its like a poor man's terrorgheist, but more expensive and worse attack/defence/special habilities.
Probably should be 200 points, have regen rule, and affect enemy units, even when these are ITP.

Gorgon Also overcosted. This guy should probably be 220 pts, 4+ armour save (hard skin) have KB by default and regain a wound everytime it makes a successful KB

And last... the Cygor Cygor is what should be a key element in the army. Providing both some ranged threat and anti-magic. The army really - and I mean REALLY - needs a catapult. However, paying 550 pts for two catapults, when some armies get 2 for 170 pts, is not fair. What would I do?
Cygor - 5++ (or 6++) save and MR3, catapult, same stats and reroll against magic as now. And antimagic - Any wizard (including friendly) failing to cast a spell within 12" will inmediately suffer a miscast. - Cost? around 180 points. It is a low-profile monster with a catapult.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby edrana » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:17 pm

Great idea! We were thinking about something similar in our local gaming community, but it's probably better to have a common ruleset.
Just some ideas:
- lone models -1 to hit
- getting back unit strength (5 models shouldn't be steadfast against monsters)
- Cavalry needing only four models for rank bonus, some extra bonus (impact hit?) for charging (maybe dependent on charge distance)
- Monsters getting "normal" stomp against cav and monstrous stuff
- Large targets +1 to hit
- Terrain: choosing between dang. terrain test or movement reduction
- Powering up psychology
- Cannons: possibility of scattering sideways (maybe d6 minus BS" ), not hitting both monster and rider
- Lore attributes and categories for older spell lores (skaven, beastmen etc)
- ambusher deployment optional

-Enabling units to split / merge

Somewhat subjective:
-Tomb Kings: constructs healing 1/spell from lore attribute instead of 1/phase
(maybe enabling signature to be cast into close combat)

- Wood Elves: changing army wide rule, maybe no penalty for shooting through forests
- High Elves: BotW either increase to 75 points, or reduce to 4+ ward

I really liked most of the ideas that came up, maybe spears against cavalry shouldn't be no AS, just AP.

Good luck on everything!

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Re: The ninth age

Postby saint.barbara » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:39 pm

First of all, salute to the initiative!
Would hate to thrash my 250+ WoC models.

_Barbarossa_ wrote:The best way to stop deathstars is unit size caps for all units and a one character per unit rule. This means an elite unit will be better, but will not be absurdly OP. Honestly, you should not have units worth 1400 points in a game of 2000 points.

I like this idea. And an additional rule for some characters (ie. Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest, small wizard, Banshee, you name it) that they can avoid this restriction.
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Re: The ninth age

Postby Salmon » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:28 am

edrana wrote:Great idea! We were thinking about something similar in our local gaming community, but it's probably better to have a common ruleset.
Just some ideas:
- lone models -1 to hit
- getting back unit strength (5 models shouldn't be steadfast against monsters)
- Cavalry needing only four models for rank bonus, some extra bonus (impact hit?) for charging (maybe dependent on charge distance)
- Monsters getting "normal" stomp against cav and monstrous stuff
- Large targets +1 to hit
- Terrain: choosing between dang. terrain test or movement reduction
- Powering up psychology
- Cannons: possibility of scattering sideways (maybe d6 minus BS" ), not hitting both monster and rider
- Lore attributes and categories for older spell lores (skaven, beastmen etc)
- ambusher deployment optional


Yes to all this please :)

I would also like to add:
- return skirmishers to 6th ed rules
- Do away with common magic items and add army specific ones:
This is a big one but I feel that otherwise, the point values cannot be balanced. the "value" of a magic item is relative to every army. For example, sword of striking is great for, say Lizardmen, but not so great for elves (since they are at S4). The armor that gives a 2+ armor save is decent for armies who cannot go lower than 3+ armor save on foot and not so hot for armies who can etc.

- Make it so that a wizard can only dispel if within x inches of enemy wizard (or spell effect). If no wizard is within range, the spell can be dispelled but with no bonus to cast. I think this will slightly increase the relative strength of say 2 level 2 wizards vs one level 4 wizards.

- I would also like to see upgrades be a real choice, not a must take. For example, who does not upgrade their lord level wizards to level 4? I think maybe make the upgrade should be more expensive so that taking it is a REAL choice. (ie. better wizard but at quite a cost). This will allow more variety in army lists.

- Somehow reduce the power of great weapons. I noticed that units who can take GW usual do. For example Grave Guard, Dwarf warriors etc. I know that people will argue that both have uses but it is quite clear that in a vacuum, Dwarf warriors with GW are better than with hand weapon and shield. What I propose is just a slightly costlier upgrade to grade weapons or a reduction (say by 1 point) of the non-great weapon option (or both!). This again, will increase army variety.

- I like the idea of just 1 character per unit. I know that this is quite limiting and may be unbalanced, but it is a good way of making people not create death star units.

- Scale the winds of magic via some linear (or non-linear) model. What I noticed now is that at, say 1000 points, magic is devastating. But play a 6k vs 6k battle and that 2d6 worth of PD isn't so hot anymore.

- Make spears have bonuses against charging non-infantry units. +1S seems simple and a pretty good way to give them a boost. This will make spearmen a very good defensive unit, which is how they are supposed to be.

I have MANY more ideas but I don't want to write them all out now because this post is long enough as is already

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Re: The ninth age

Postby karlee » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:17 am

First of all thank you for your hard work. I really like the way it is going to. What I would really like to see is balancing every army book internally.

For example in Empire:

Units that need a nerf:
- Demigryphs +7pts
- STank +50pts

Units that need a boost:
- spearmen -1pts or some fancy spear rules
- swordsmen -1pts
- crossbowmen -1pts
- handgunners -1pts and +d6 inches range in first shot
- free company -1pts
- flagellants -3pts
- greatswords - 2pts
- mortar, should have S3 as in previous book
- pistoliers -3pts
- hellstorm, could have old rules, but be more expensive.

Just a wishful thinking. Such can be done with other army books. It could give a fresh push in WFB, and we might see some good old units on the table :)
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Re: The ninth age

Postby gandor » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:31 am

The steadfast rule should be changed into:

STEADFAST

Any unit on the losing side can use its unmodified Leadership for Break tests so long as its number of ranks is higher than that of all enemy units in the close combat - compare the units ranks to the enemy units total of ranks ( e.g. a unit of 5x3 Orks and a unit of 5 Wolfriders = 3+1 = 4 ranks). If a total of all enemy ranks is equal or higher, then the unit must test using its modified Ld.

Enemy units fighting in rear double their ranks for calculating the steadfast.


This should encourage manoeuvring, combo charges and flanking/rear charging
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Re: The ninth age

Postby TheTrans » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:29 pm

I reckon they should go the kings of war route...if a flank or rear are hit they multiply the attacks from the attacking unit....

People would start watching there flanks then (which should be the case anyway...)..

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Re: The ninth age

Postby [AUT]ThEjOkEr » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:45 pm

Dear Swedes & co-authors!

Currently the Austrian community (like so many others) is torn and seems to need a direction in their efforts to go forward with their beloved hobby. Having seen your ETC team several times in the past I am aware that you are working professionally and will be able to deliver the product the (competitive) community wants. Therefore I want to host a 9. Age event in Austria and support your efforts actively.

To be able to book an event location and to set up the administrative stuff (like announcements, coverage, time schedule, buffet) I would need a date when I will be able to get your 9th age rulespack.

I know that you are working as fast as humanly possible to deliver your rulespack - I do want to help further your idea of an internationally accepted successor of WHFB. I don't think that the community as a whole will be able to agree on a collective system going ahead.

What we as event organizers on the other hand can do is providing events under the same rulespack. I am certain, that the community will react to our supply because the players still have the demand to play "Warhammer" - even if it is not supported by GW anymore. This is the only realistic way to steer the whole community into a common direction.

Neither the rules (I have carefully studied your draft - they look superior to what GW has ever produced) nor the supply of new miniatures (I have seen so many WHFB armies which mainly contained alternate models - this is a common sight since years) are the biggest problems right now - My firm believe is that the only real problem these days is the uncertainty of our players.

I want to actively combat this main issue by providing events where people can play their armies like they used to, where they can network and where we can get first hand feedback what can/should be improved. The player base needs the feeling that there is a future - arranging events like we used to while GW supported WHFB is the most important step to hold the community together.

Please contact me for further information - I am looking forward working together with you in the future.

Philip
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Re: The ninth age

Postby arthain » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:53 pm

AFAIK there is the deadline of ETC (August) for publishing of some basic material (most BRB changes), so that people know the idea behind the 9th age and know what to expect in the future. To have a fully updated 9th BRB + 16 AB will surely take a bit longer
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Re: The ninth age

Postby Diablo_DF » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:17 am

Goatman wrote:A few thoughts on Beastmen:
Lot's of sensible stuff.


As a beastmen player I agree with all of those. Now, one other thing I'd really really like to see is the return of 2 wound infantry.

In 5th edition all gors, bestigors and characters had +1 wound.
Now for gors this would be overpowered and for characters unneccessary, but I really like the idea of two wound bestigors for say 15 or 16 points. Bestigors at the moment are pretty much just gors with differend weapons and armour. WS 4, T4, As 5+ and always strike last makes them pretty fragile against other elites. Two wounds would mitigate that while also giving them truely unique (meaning not +1 WS, +1 Str, or +1 Attacks) elite stats.


If I were to rewrite the whole book, I'd try to make them less brown orks and more evil wood elves. Bring back the old skirmish formation with rank bonus. More skirmishers, more scouts and ambush. Throwing weapons, lot's of throwing weapons, maybe some more bows, too. I don't care for marks at all, scrap them.

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Re: The ninth age

Postby ChrisM2 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:45 am

I'm loving all this - have invested interest in the 'world of warhammer' for almost 20 years along with a total of 5 armies, and do not have the time nor inclination to start afresh with other systems. This not only keeps it all going but also addresses gripes which were putting people (myself included) a bit off the hobby, especially as I like using fluffier units but am a bit too competitive to enjoy them in the current meta, and was the reason for stopping my battle reporting when games could be flipped over by a $%^&ing annoying miscast result!

I totally agree with having visibility of this on its own web-page, and this can also include planned tournaments along with records/batreps of test games to get everyone's juices flowing. I'm happy working with some of my team mates towards a tourney in London supporting this and I know our main store Dark Sphere will join in to host it.

Philip - a few of us who still support 8th have been looking at combining warhammer with a love for travel so we'd definitely be interested in a trip to Austria! Please keep me in the loop/PM as I'm confident I can get a good few others from the London Free Company attending!

Keep it all up sirs, if the 0-2 restriction on spawns is lifted then Barney and Carrot may get new friends!

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Re: The ninth age

Postby gandor » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:10 am

arthain wrote:To have a fully updated 9th BRB + 16 AB will surely take a bit longer


You have a big chance to make this work since many people are disappointed with AoS, the sooner the better.
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Re: The ninth age

Postby [AUT]ThEjOkEr » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:26 am

arthain wrote:AFAIK there is the deadline of ETC (August) for publishing of some basic material (most BRB changes), so that people know the idea behind the 9th age and know what to expect in the future. To have a fully updated 9th BRB + 16 AB will surely take a bit longer


I would be mainly interested in a BRB pdf that contains all the rules necessary to play 9th age. I don't need fixed point costs and perfectly fine balancing - the goal is to get the juices flowing and enabling people to get a feeling how 9th age will play out. Concentrating on basic rules should be the main goal - the Swedes (even though they are VERY pushing this project) cannot be expected to achieve in 2 months what GW hasn't achieved in years, everyone will understand that finetuning and rewriting army books will take time.

To be able to test and play the 9th age we need a substitute for the BRB though.


ChrisM2 wrote:I'm loving all this - have invested interest in the 'world of warhammer' for almost 20 years along with a total of 5 armies, and do not have the time nor inclination to start afresh with other systems. This not only keeps it all going but also addresses gripes which were putting people (myself included) a bit off the hobby, especially as I like using fluffier units but am a bit too competitive to enjoy them in the current meta, and was the reason for stopping my battle reporting when games could be flipped over by a $%^&ing annoying miscast result!

I totally agree with having visibility of this on its own web-page, and this can also include planned tournaments along with records/batreps of test games to get everyone's juices flowing. I'm happy working with some of my team mates towards a tourney in London supporting this and I know our main store Dark Sphere will join in to host it.

Philip - a few of us who still support 8th have been looking at combining warhammer with a love for travel so we'd definitely be interested in a trip to Austria! Please keep me in the loop/PM as I'm confident I can get a good few others from the London Free Company attending!

Keep it all up sirs, if the 0-2 restriction on spawns is lifted then Barney and Carrot may get new friends!


Dear Chris!
I really really appreciate your post - this shows first hand that there are still people that care and will go out of their way to further our hobby.

Regarding the points Chris raised:

I do believe that a simple website (wordpress is totally fine and could be set up without costs within a day or two) where all relevant information, the current WiP files, changelogs and testing results can be looked up is desperately needed.

Furthermore (if you want to use this forum for your communication with the public) we should get a separate part of the board (like ETC) where each race has its own thread and discussion / input can take place without mixing up 20 topics within one thread (I do like the exclusion of the Bretonian discussion for instance). You should have 1 sticky thread with general infos like what you are currently doing, what is the approx. estimated time frame for certain projects, how we may help you (!) and who is responsible for certain armies / the basic rules (to be able to give feedback directly to the person doing the job and minimizing the needed administration of the discussion).

I do think that you should utilize the manpower you were offered quite often here and in other boards. Just tell us what you want us to do - we are here to help.

Regarding your offer taking part in a tournament - this would be really awesome! Austrian airports are the destination of many cheap airlines (raynair, germanwings,...) which offer flights to england / london - I could pick you up at the airport, organize a accommodation and bring you back to the airport as well. I cannot plan the event before I know the estimated time line for the rulespack though - I will keep you in the loop (you will get a PM with my personal contact information).

I don't know if my friends and I will make it to your event - if you set a date please give me a notification!

Please keep us updated on the 9th Age - we really want to help and are desperate for information!

Regards,
Philip


EDIT: Out of personal interest - would it be useful to drive to Prague because of this project? Personally I would like to involve myself more in this project. I am from tomorrow until Tuesday in Stockholm (family holidays) - if you want to meet I could make time for it.
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