The ninth age

Platform for development and feedback of the ninth age project

Moderators: arthain, Lagge, fjugin, el rey, Keepers of the Peace

Encefalit
ETC Chairman
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:27 pm
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Location: Bears Balalaika Vodka

Re: The ninth age

Postby Encefalit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:00 pm

as a copyright lawyer...

usable: mechanichs
Un-usable:
- all background story content,
- all pictures (even pictures with GW miniatures made specially for new book - unfair competition resons not only copyright plays role here),
- all names of units, places and spells with author's intent (dwarf slayers - no, spearmen - ok),
- all miniatures and their "upgrades" (as sculpts, here goes Chapterhouse case).

After all you want to create game what will not portrated in custommers minds as Warhammer Fantasy Battles - because thats unfair competiotion.

So either you create brand new game, without even mentioing something about warhammer or you have legal risks.

Or GW will just let you do this - eg forgive your infregments of their rights.

Thats the story when you make derivatives IP.

And really game without dwarf slayers wont make it for me :\
2006-2013 ETC Team Russia WFB Captain
2008-2009 ETC Team Russia 40k Captain (non-playing)

ETC 2012-2013 Chairman

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:18 pm

But if you call them Dwarf Axeslingers for instance, it's all good yes?
Fred

2013-2015 WHFB ETC Head Ref & FAQ team
2015- KOW player
________________________________
- Check out "Fred the Referee" (channel) on YouTube!

Encefalit
ETC Chairman
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:27 pm
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Location: Bears Balalaika Vodka

Re: The ninth age

Postby Encefalit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:33 pm

Frederique wrote:But if you call them Dwarf Axeslingers for instance, it's all good yes?


yes, but still youll need new art pictures.

And even after it all... no Gotrek and Ungrim, no dwarf slayers miniatures range photos and no Slayer Keep (Karak Kadrin).

So either we ask first GWs legal permision to use old content in some sort of free license (almost same story as DnD 3.5 --- > Pathfinder). Or it will be empty can of beer. And who needs Warhammer without old content?

If Warhammer wants to survive, its better somebody will contact and work with GW about old content free license. Their benefit is obvious - sales of their miniatures.
2006-2013 ETC Team Russia WFB Captain
2008-2009 ETC Team Russia 40k Captain (non-playing)

ETC 2012-2013 Chairman

jouso
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:20 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby jouso » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:30 pm

Encefalit wrote:
Frederique wrote:But if you call them Dwarf Axeslingers for instance, it's all good yes?


yes, but still youll need new art pictures.

And even after it all... no Gotrek and Ungrim, no dwarf slayers miniatures range photos and no Slayer Keep (Karak Kadrin)..


Plenty of fan art with those.

Plus, as long as you're not charging for anything a C&D letter is the only thing you might get.

If I were on the Swedish boots I'd try the derivative work route, with plenty of literature devotes to GW copyright and that it's used without permission acknowledging this and that.

If GW gets tough, change it for copyrightable terms and fan art. There's more than enough around.

kylek2235
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:36 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: The ninth age

Postby kylek2235 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:55 pm

Encefalit wrote:as a copyright lawyer...

usable: mechanichs
Un-usable:
- all background story content,
- all pictures (even pictures with GW miniatures made specially for new book - unfair competition resons not only copyright plays role here),
- all names of units, places and spells with author's intent (dwarf slayers - no, spearmen - ok),
- all miniatures and their "upgrades" (as sculpts, here goes Chapterhouse case).

After all you want to create game what will not portrated in custommers minds as Warhammer Fantasy Battles - because thats unfair competiotion.

So either you create brand new game, without even mentioing something about warhammer or you have legal risks.

Or GW will just let you do this - eg forgive your infregments of their rights.

Thats the story when you make derivatives IP.

And really game without dwarf slayers wont make it for me :\



Dwarf Slayers? I didn't think that was GWs.

As for the background, the world is destroyed, start with a new one. A bridge can definitely be written that is vague enough to avoid any problems. Write the bridge, "survivors" make there way to new world, and put the setting far enough in the future that it becomes myth and legend. The only thing that poses any problem in that scenario is the bridge itself, after that it's a brave new world. Things like the Chaos Gods and the Skaven would likely need to be renamed entirely though.

I think the unit names/upgrades would be more problematic.

Encefalit
ETC Chairman
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:27 pm
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Location: Bears Balalaika Vodka

Re: The ninth age

Postby Encefalit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:44 pm

kylek2235 wrote:Dwarf Slayers? I didn't think that was GWs.

As for the background, the world is destroyed, start with a new one.


Really i assume its GWs, because how they will use it in first place if its not theirs ;)

Actually i would rather prefer Old World content before End of Times (this series of books were made for system reboot and profit not for hobby). Yeah its old content and if GW dosent need it any more, there some chances of free licensing it.
2006-2013 ETC Team Russia WFB Captain
2008-2009 ETC Team Russia 40k Captain (non-playing)

ETC 2012-2013 Chairman

kylek2235
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:36 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: The ninth age

Postby kylek2235 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:36 pm

Encefalit wrote:
kylek2235 wrote:Dwarf Slayers? I didn't think that was GWs.

As for the background, the world is destroyed, start with a new one.


Really i assume its GWs, because how they will use it in first place if its not theirs ;)

Actually i would rather prefer Old World content before End of Times (this series of books were made for system reboot and profit not for hobby). Yeah its old content and if GW dosent need it any more, there some chances of free licensing it.


I would much prefer the old world as the setting as well, I'm just pessimistic about that being an option, especially since GW is still using the bastardized versions of some of those characters. If the ground floor for a new setting needs to be written, then it's got to be done. I just want to make sure its not lost in the shuffle since it attracted so many of us.

MightyM00se
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:03 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby MightyM00se » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:59 am

A new grounding may be just as rewarding.

A new story for a new age of compelling fantasy battles.

fjugin
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:33 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby fjugin » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Sneak peek on what we are currently working on. Two documents:

The 9th Age RULES UPDATE sneak peek.pdf
This will include rules updates. Currently new rulse for magic phase and line of sight.


The 9th Age ARMY CONSTRUCTION sneak peek.pdf
This will include stuff that more directly influence army construction (new points costs, new magic items, updated lores etc). Currently this mostly includes examples in what types of changes we are planning (new points, new rules, restrictions on how many of a certain unit you may include, what counts as core and so on). Please consider these more as exmaples and ideas than finalized changes.

Tell us what you think about the changes. Both de new stuff, but also more generally; too much changes? to few changes? wrong types of changes? etc
Erik Aronson
ETC TEAM SWEDEN 2011 (Skaven), 2012 (Empire), 2013 (Beastmen), 2014 winners (Skaven), 2015 (Skaven)
Author ETC AR 2014, Swedish Comp System and The 9th Age

Lagge
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:30 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby Lagge » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:44 pm

First post updated as well
ETC '11 Montreux, Switzerland: Team Sweden DoC player
ETC '12 Gorzow, Poland: Team Sweden OnG player
ETC '13 Novi Sad, Serbia: Team Sweden Skaven player
ETC '14 Novi Sad, Serbia: Team Sweden Dark elf player. WINNERS!!
ETC '15 Prague, Czech Republic: Team Sweden Wood Elf player
Co founder of the swedish comp system
Co Founder of The Ninth Age

User avatar
Bugman
Posts: 2255
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:20 am
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Location: Lincs, England
Contact:

Re: The ninth age

Postby Bugman » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:48 pm

wrong type of changes IMHO but it's just that.

Line of sight I agree needs changing as does a rework of steadfast. I have no complaints with magic.

Some of the army tweaks I don't quite agree with

Sterling effort though, keep going

Bugman
http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Dwarf website in the old world, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, gallery and the infamous warhammer armies: Diaries!!!!
Feedback Thread

User avatar
SkargitCrookfang
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:57 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby SkargitCrookfang » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:16 am

You had me at "0-1 Steam Tank, 300 points". <3

realnoob
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby realnoob » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:26 am

...and lost me at "Dwarfs can triple their movement when they march."

Seriously?
Welcome to "Age of Sigmar": The game where everything's made up, and the points don't matter.

User avatar
SkargitCrookfang
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:57 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby SkargitCrookfang » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:29 am

realnoob wrote:...and lost me at "Dwarfs can triple their movement when they march."

Seriously?


I kind of love that. We may see some more Dwarf armies that aren't gunlines.

realnoob
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby realnoob » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:41 am

SkargitCrookfang wrote:
I kind of love that. We may see some more Dwarf armies that aren't gunlines.


It makes no sense in terms of racial character, though. Making Rangers and Miners more viable would help with gunlines (the official changes already helped). I could perhaps see a charge bonus working (a mad dash, like some kind of Highland Charge - which would stack with the strength bonus), but a general bonus that makes them almost as fast as Elves or Skaven makes no sense - those races are supposed to be almost supernaturally fast.
Welcome to "Age of Sigmar": The game where everything's made up, and the points don't matter.

Hitsugaya Toushiro
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Italy

Re: The ninth age

Postby Hitsugaya Toushiro » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:25 am

i really like this work! nice changes!

i only dislike:

-sword of metal melting....looks too strong

-even with 1st ignored test, The Dwellers Bellow remains overpowered...should allow ward saves/MR or cause wounds no as etc....game breaking spells like this,Purple Sun,13th,Trasmutation etc should be reworked

blackfang
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:13 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby blackfang » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:31 am

I suggest you leave points costs alone. Change stats/special rules to buff or nerf models. If you want to attract the existing player base, invalidating their army builder software and making them go back to pen and paper is the first thing you need to avoid.

fjugin
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:33 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby fjugin » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:50 am

Bugman wrote:wrong type of changes IMHO but it's just that.

Please elaborate

realnoob wrote:...and lost me at "Dwarfs can triple their movement when they march."
Seriously?

It is clear to us that dwarfs needs something to make them more active on the battlefield. M3 simply does not cut it, and gunline dwarfs are a really uninteresting army. The vanguard banner in the book was a good start, but not enough imo. Therefore we wanted to give them something to make them able to participate in the movement phase.
In terms of racial characteristics, you could see it this way: Dwarfs have very high stamina, they don't get tired easily. Therefore, they can keep their top sprinting speed for long durations. While a human cannot sprint at their top speed on a battle field (that would make them too tired to fight), a dwarf can sprint for long distances and still have enough strength to fight at full capacity. So, when dwarfs "marches", they are actually sprinting. When a human marches, he is walking at a fast pace. ;)

Anyway, as it says in the document, suggested changes are not finalized. Please give us alternative changes.

Hitsugaya Toushiro wrote:-even with 1st ignored test, The Dwellers Bellow remains overpowered...should allow ward saves/MR or cause wounds no as etc....game breaking spells like this,Purple Sun,13th,Trasmutation etc should be reworked

The thinking around dwellers update:
Dwellers fills an important role in the game, as anti-death star spell (which many people have pointed out). If we would allow ward saves or magic resistance, dwellers would lose much of its effectiveness against death stars. And if it would only do a single wound (another common suggestion), it would be very ineffective against death stars built around lots of characters in the same unit.
Instead, we chose to let the spell be (almost) as effective against death stars, but nerfed its ability to snipe characters (by letting people ignore first failed test). Never again will your level4 wizard die from turn 1 dwellers. However, if you put lots of characters into the same unit, you're not so safe any more.
This change also removes the ability of dwellers to get lucky and kill off a greater daemon. Such huge game changing effect by the roll of a single dice are not really fitting an update aimed at making the game more competitive. Now, dwellers is purely for reducing big and/or character heavy units, it's other uses (character sniping, killing single models etc) have been removed.



Also, if people are willing to contribute to this project, we are currently listing all units in all army books (with points cost). 8 of 16 armies are made already, leaving:
High elves, Lizardmen, Ogre kingdoms, Orcs and goblins, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos and Wood Elves.
DESIRED FORMAT
Take an available army -> follow instructions above -> send PM to me -> (optional) get your name (or nickname) under "co-authors" -> first version can be released sooner
EDIT, all armies now completed. Big thanks to all who helped
Last edited by fjugin on Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Erik Aronson
ETC TEAM SWEDEN 2011 (Skaven), 2012 (Empire), 2013 (Beastmen), 2014 winners (Skaven), 2015 (Skaven)
Author ETC AR 2014, Swedish Comp System and The 9th Age

Hitsugaya Toushiro
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Italy

Re: The ninth age

Postby Hitsugaya Toushiro » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:02 am

mmm i understand your pov...however in 8th etc final draft you got 2 los against dwellers...now 1 ignored test....maybe 2 ignored tests or 1 ignored+1los would be better....but this is only a first preview so there is time for these little details :)

nice work, i would like to try full draft soon :)

Cyel
Posts: 2660
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:25 am
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Location: Warsaw, Poland, Black Company

Re: The ninth age

Postby Cyel » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:29 am

Even though a lot of people will most likely have a differing POV regarding the details of your changes, I am quite sure it will , on the whole, make more sense than "official" 8th. Not to mention the not funny joke that is AoS.

Looking forward to seeing a WFB rulespack made by ambitious, competitive gamers.
Warsaw is not exactly a kind of a battlesaw. It is the capital of Poland

Hitsugaya Toushiro
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Italy

Re: The ninth age

Postby Hitsugaya Toushiro » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:31 am

if i can suggest, discussions should be public and in english....a swedish forum (only in swedish language) imho limits visibility and trurstworthy

Waaagh Ard Toof
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:46 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby Waaagh Ard Toof » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:41 am

In terms Dwarf movement why not make it so that if they fail a charge they can move the full 2D6 rather than the highest individual score. That way their movement remains low but they can potentially get a bit of boost if used aggressively.

Krokz
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:12 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: The ninth age

Postby Krokz » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:59 am

I don't really think x3 March is a deal breaker. They march for only 3" more and I doubt that only this change alone will make them really viable. And they still only get to move after a Swift reform so fast opponents can still play with them.

Hitsugaya Toushiro wrote:if i can suggest, discussions should be public and in english....a swedish forum (only in swedish language) imho limits visibility and trurstworthy
Not really a solution, just to get by: Google translate translates Swedish language very well and you can write English on their forum. That is how some of us non-swedes contributed to SweComp in the past.
ETC Team Slovenia WHFB Captain: 2014, 2015
ETC Team Austria T9A Player 2016

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:17 pm

The suggested Dwellers Below change is a very elegant solution, I like it.
Fred

2013-2015 WHFB ETC Head Ref & FAQ team
2015- KOW player
________________________________
- Check out "Fred the Referee" (channel) on YouTube!

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:05 pm

Ogre Kingdoms points sent on PM to Fjugin
Last edited by Frederique on Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hitsugaya Toushiro
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Italy

Re: The ninth age

Postby Hitsugaya Toushiro » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:12 pm

quick question....maybe i missed it but looks like now a overwelming power(irresistible force) doesn't negate dispel anymore....was that intentional? so overw.power is only a malus without any bonus of sort?

thanks

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:21 pm

Lizardmen sent on PM

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:38 pm

Warriors sent on PM

Frederique
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Norway

Re: The ninth age

Postby Frederique » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:43 pm

Hitsugaya Toushiro wrote:quick question....maybe i missed it but looks like now a overwelming power(irresistible force) doesn't negate dispel anymore....was that intentional? so overw.power is only a malus without any bonus of sort?

thanks


Yes it looks like you can dispel a double 6, so its not unstoppable like before.
But the double six will add a extra number to the casting value, so it will be much harder to dispel. (double six dispelling would also not auto-dispel but also add a number to the dispel value).

Hitsugaya Toushiro
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Italy

Re: The ninth age

Postby Hitsugaya Toushiro » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:53 pm

damn i missed that +d3 value bonus :)

ps. 5 wounds wizards that can heal themselves (ex.mannfred and ogre slaughtermaster) look very strong in casting at 5 dice....on bad result they get d3+1 wounds (3 non average) usually not enough to kill them and then they can heal themselves)


Return to “9th Age”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest