ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Rugi » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:50 pm

sovietpride wrote:
Rugi wrote:
Please point out potential issues.


Apart from the fact that you are sudmitting a format with two point cost for most units (one incorrect and one correct but that you must add manually), that Forces list teams that cant be field and that the stats (airplanes, rocket launchers...) are incorrect I can see no issues.

Frankly its a joke proposing an outdated and full of mistakes format for sudmitting over a 100 lists... a serious organization would create his own template for list sudmissiob unless they want all sort of mistakes taking place during the tournament.


Creating a new tool or application with which players can build their lists and get a correct printout form it is definitely not a part of the rules pack and COMPLETELY outside the scope of the rules committee.

Feel free to create such an application though, I am sure the community is going to support it (if it works properly and doesn't have any errors) and then we can include is mandatory use in the rules pack. If mandatory then of course it has to be free as well.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby graham » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:54 pm

Not a serious organisation? Guilty as charged. It is the people on this forum who make ETC FoW happen.

We on the committee offered to do what we could. At least two guys on the committee put a lot of effort in while they had some big stuff going on in their real lives. I also put in a lot of time that I could ill afford to turn our discussions into a rules pack.

You don't like it. Fine, that is your right and I also respect your right to criticise it. Maybe it'll be voted down. Maybe something better will appear... except, whatever happens, we won't get a rules pack because a serious organisation appears. It will be because someone offers to do something in their spare time.

If the vote goes in favour of the rules pack, I invite you to help with designing the sort of template that you want.

If the votes goes against, I'd welcome your suggestions on designing the new one.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby sovietpride » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:38 am

You dont need anything fancy... a simple excell document will do. No need to create an online armybuilder... you simply just need a document that adds the cost of the units.

Its certainly will take less time to develop that argueing about the need of maintaning an outdated and clumpsy format that has the wrong stats and dosent even add the correct points.

I will very happily send this excell template to the busy and honorable members of the commitee so they can consider about it and surely improve upon my humble work (just send me a PM with your adress and I will mail it to you).

My only querry is that since this issue (ussing forces and other outdated armybuilders) is already being voted, wouldnt the inclusion of a proper list sudmussion format imply a further vote to modify the rulespack.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Rugi » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:21 am

Sovietpride: Email sent via PM

Currently I just can't see a good way to link the up to date arsenal with a "Choice Style" excel table. Maybe I am overthinking it though..

Otherwise I think that yes, we will have to make another vote to modify the List format in the rulespack. Not a big deal to change a part like this I think.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby DaveM » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 am

sovietpride wrote:You dont need anything fancy... a simple excell document will do. No need to create an online armybuilder... you simply just need a document that adds the cost of the units.

Its certainly will take less time to develop that argueing about the need of maintaning an outdated and clumpsy format that has the wrong stats and dosent even add the correct points.

I will very happily send this excell template to the busy and honorable members of the commitee so they can consider about it and surely improve upon my humble work (just send me a PM with your adress and I will mail it to you).

My only querry is that since this issue (ussing forces and other outdated armybuilders) is already being voted, wouldnt the inclusion of a proper list sudmussion format imply a further vote to modify the rulespack.


Sovietpride, you may be making valid points but you undermine yourself with the sarcasm and criticism of the committee who have put in many hours of work to produce the rulespack.
Yes, there maybe issues, but positive input is more helpful inc. your offer of a spreadsheet for army list submission.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby M1le » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:40 pm

sovietpride wrote:You dont need anything fancy... a simple excell document will do. No need to create an online armybuilder... you simply just need a document that adds the cost of the units.


1. If you have so much time on your hand please do it. For all XXX army lists available in EW.

sovietpride wrote:Its certainly will take less time to develop that argueing about the need of maintaning an outdated and clumpsy format that has the wrong stats and dosent even add the correct points.


2. As far as I see it, it's only you arguing.

sovietpride wrote: I will very happily send this excell template to the busy and honorable members of the commitee so they can consider about it and surely improve upon my humble work (just send me a PM with your adress and I will mail it to you).


3. What a poor and sarcastic attitude against people who have invested the time to CONTRIBUTE to the community by spending their free time. I didn't see you volunteering when the time arrived? [-X
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby sovietpride » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:07 pm

I didnt volunteer for a number of important reasons:

-Most probably I wont be assisting to Zagreb.

-I dont think the comittee idea was good in the first place, so me voluntering would have create a disruption in its work.

-I dont like V4 and think that its a mistake to use ot in the ETC... surely if i defended my POV in the comittee it would be seen as a sort of boicot to its work.

When I simply pointed out that in the rulespack there was an oversight in choosing Forces as a list submission format because neither points nor stats are correct... the comitee members answered in a very defensive manner:

Firstly not recognising that there was an issue.
Secondly saying that I was not allowed to point out any mistake in the rulespack.
Finally recognising the list sudmission format was not even discussed by the comittee and that indeed it was a carry over from last year rulespack and therefore an oversight.

Taking this into account I really think I can be a bit ironic in my answer... Im sure the members of the comitte consider themselve to be both honorable and busy people (at least thats how they expess themselve in this thread) and certainly my contribution will be humble because im sure that when the comittee takes a serious look into this issue thay will improve on whatever template I offer them or find an alternative and more satisfactory solution.

Nevertheless the issue seems to be on its tracks towards solution... altough if you want to enter into an adhominen argument about my lack of net-etiquette you are welcome, Im pretty sure I will endure further than you do.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Frogdog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:40 pm

sovietpride wrote:I didnt volunteer for a number of important reasons:

-Most probably I wont be assisting to Zagreb.



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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Rugi » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:31 am

sovietpride wrote:Firstly not recognising that there was an issue.
Secondly saying that I was not allowed to point out any mistake in the rulespack.
Finally recognising the list sudmission format was not even discussed by the comittee and that indeed it was a carry over from last year rulespack and therefore an oversight.

Taking this into account I really think I can be a bit ironic in my answer... Im sure the members of the comitte consider themselve to be both honorable and busy people (at least thats how they expess themselve in this thread) and certainly my contribution will be humble because im sure that when the comittee takes a serious look into this issue thay will improve on whatever template I offer them or find an alternative and more satisfactory solution.


We can immediately admit that the list format as it is far from perfect but not an issue for the event itself. If you can't handle some exceptions expressed in a player note for this one transitional year then you have an issue.

I am still waiting for an example of the excel template (email sent via PM). If we use it in the end we can put your name on it if you wish.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby sovietpride » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:26 pm

Im getting a mix message... do you think that ussing forces will be OK for this year ETC because this is a completelly minor Issue or are you in a hurry to receive the excell template to sholve the issue?

I really dont want to waste the limited time of the comittee volunteers, nor fooster any further polemic... so if people are happy with things as they are I will abstein from sending my template draft.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Rugi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:34 am

You are getting a mixed message because:

1.) In everyone elses opinion it is a minor issue in the bigger scope of things (i.e. V4 rules, multiple formations, limits per team etc.)

2.) Since list submission format can only be improved, I don't think there is anyone that wouldn't like to see this solved and adjusted in the rules pack.

So yes, please send over an example of your idea.
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Re: ETC 2018 Rulespack Comitee results

Postby Pepeto » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:26 pm

Well,
as for the proposed tool I nominate myself as the great excel programmer to solve this issue (just kidding)
I have made such a file which is rather helpful in designing army lists (at least it helped me with my own list). All you have to do is manually enter the units and its original and rebated cost.

See wetransfer link below
(I have posted it in a seperate thread but thought I might as well add it here :D )

https://we.tl/Oum4erA2EG

EDIT: I believe such an excel along with the Forces army lists and possibly a word document to show the formations structure ( eg. My first formation is Polish Infantry and my second is Polish Cavalry ,since Pulk Kawalieri can be purchuased as support to the Infantry Formation. All support options will be taken by the Polish Infantry Slots - or something like this) should be enough for easy review and verification.
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