Banzai & Gung Ho

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96mgb
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Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby 96mgb » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:13 am

Now that the period has been descrided we need to work out if Banzai and Gunho will be allowed.

This can occur quickly as none of the other discussions matter (or points level, match ups etc0.

It's important to do this now as it gives people time to buy models and paint, the modeling of a banzai Japanese force for example will look different and I don't want to start painting until it's decided.

For me it just needs someone with a good knowledge of the history to write a list of all units not available in 1939-41 (current early war time line based on the fact that barbossa hits 41). Anything after that can't be used.

Thoughts?
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby graham » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:30 am

This is one of the things that the committee should look at. They should come back with a recommendation on whether or not to allow those books and, if the books are allowed, which lists and which specific toys should be allowed. It is not a difficult job.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Dave A » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:58 am

Gung-Ho should not be allowed. I don't believe the Marines were fighting in 1941 - but I could be wrong on that. The initial Japanese attacks were on the British.

Not sure about Banzai. If the book makes it very clear what equipment is allowed when then there could be a case as the forces covered fought. If there is not a clear statement in the books then I'd suggest not allowing it. My understanding is that this covers the forces in the Pacific, not those in China. And as we don't have an "opposition" book for the Chinese I'd suggest this isn't specificially covering the fighting in China so they only fought for 3 weeks in period.

In Forces these are listed as Pacific-War. Lets leave them there. Cut down on the cheese lists.

I'd also like to see all the PDFs left out. Not everybody has access to them so it is not fair to use them. I just had a quick look on the Flames site and can't find any PDFs where I'd expect them to be - in the Downloads. Stick to what is still published by Battlefront either in book form or on Forces. Or make a list of the PDFs and tell people where they can be found by the end of October giving everybody 9 months to build lists. But I'd still prefer the PDFs left out as they are less balanced than the books.

btw Graham, I accept that the committee will make recommendations but they should accept as wide a debate as possible. Full transparency please. And as Mark says, we can take a quick decision on some things which will lighten your workload.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby 96mgb » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:47 am

I have no idea what the committee is and isn't doing. I just think who ever needs to do it whether a committee or a vote could happen very fast.

If you are planning a Japanese force it's really important to know.

As for PDFs I full disagree with Dave A. If you can't find them look harder or ask around someone will have a copy if they want them. Don't stop people using their toys.

Graham if the committee (who is this committee) is descidimg things can how quickly can they make a call. Let's not let this b3come brexit. I.e. No negotiation on anything important until the nuff naffnhas been sorted :lol:
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Dave A » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:19 am

As for PDFs how can you find something you don't know exists? If they are to be used then full disclosure - anyone that wants to use a PDF should be required to make the PDF public by October this year. Trying to use something that isn't available to the whole community isn't cheating but is very unsportsmanlike. If it isn't on Forces then it shouldn't be used.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby 96mgb » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:43 am

I am sure someone can do a list of them. There was no problem in previous years on they weren't all on forces and easy army.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby wyrm » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:32 am

First, lets collect the PDFs and make them available to all (e.g. sticky topic with links).
Second, lets evaluate, if they seem broken.
Third, decision, which is allowed for 2018.

Shouldn't be hard.

I have The Netherlands and Norway. I know of a belgian one. Any others?
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby graham » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:41 pm

Whoa, there. Slow down and take a breath everyone. There are a lot of issues to be resolved. I could easily create a dozen threads, each one raising a significant issue that needs to be sorted out.

That is why I proposed this: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=136619

I think that pizzaguardian will launch a vote on it quite soon.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Tío Sam » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:58 pm

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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby graham » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:41 am

Yes, thanks. Someone pointed it out to me last week and it is a good basis for work.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby 96mgb » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:55 pm

So where are we. Is there a vote for a committee? If not can we look at starting a vote to use the PDF in the above post allowing only times up to 1941 (MW is 42-43 and Lw is 44-45). Seems very simple and allows people to start modeling Andy buying with confidence.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Doktor Helge » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:35 am

the vote for comitees is ongoing right now
Personally I don´t think Gung Ho should be used in an EW tournament, the US was not an active part of the early war
Also if there is a risk of bringing bazookas, Shermans or any other eqiupment belonging in 1942+ then... No it should not be allowed
Furthermore.. Artilleri is very very expensive in the EW books.. if there is a big price difference in arty, that is another good reason to keep those 2 books away from EW
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby TheMarko » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:07 am

There is a guide which lists available equipment for EW for these two books. So no Shermans or zookas either . . . :( I will be testing a list from Gung Ho for EW 4V next weekend and will give some insight on this. Restrictions include No 105mm or 155mm arty, no bofors or 90mm AA, extra expensive Stuarts, no automatic rifles rule and no use of armoured or amphibian lists . . . Basically VERY limited infantry marines list . . . Not really tourney material, but hey, it's chance for us US players to show up for a game or two occasionally . . .
The list I'm taking is infantry horde, because, well, it is the only thing I could make with given restrictions without spending one third of allocated points on three Stuarts . . .

Not that it matters, but I am still FOR use of these briefings. Still, this might change during the said tournament :D . . .
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Doktor Helge » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:42 pm

Actually I would love to see American forces in EW
They were ingaged in Heavy land battles before the end og 1941.
But the fearless vets Of Gung Ho represents the US army in the phillipines very badly...
I would wish there was a pdf list that represented that force.

The Philippines Campaign (Filipino: Kampanya sa Pilipinas or Labanan sa Pilipinas) or the Battle of the Philippines, fought 8 December 1941 – 8 May 1942, was the invasion of the Philippines by Imperial Japan and the defense of the islands by United States and Filipino forces during the Second World War.

The Japanese launched the invasion by sea from Formosa over 200 miles to the north of the Philippines. The defending forces outnumbered the Japanese invaders by 3 to 2, however they were a mixed force of non-combat experienced regular, national guard, constabulary and newly created Commonwealth units. The Japanese used first-line troops at the outset of the campaign, and concentrating their forces, enabling a swift overrun of most of Luzon during the first month.
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Rugi » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:32 pm

As much as I would like to see the pacific books used in EW, I am afraid the points are off.

The main cause of my claim are the 75mm artillery (FV by default). 4 guns cost 120 points and are light guns with RoF2, AT6 and 3+ FP (-20 points for command and staff team already deducted)

For comparison, 4 german CV GebK15 guns with 1 less direct fire AT cost 95 (-20 for command and staff team).
4 german pak36 guns have RoF2, AT6, 4+ FP but a better range at 24" and cost 155 points (-10 for command team).


Do 25 points explain the difference between fearless and confident AND the higher AT? It seems a bit dodgy

The difference between CV and FV finnish version of the 4 GebK15 guns in LW is 15 points. Do 10 points explain 1 higher AT in EW though? Especially considering that a single gun upgrade of the japanese 37mm gun with AT6 to the captured 45mm with AT7 costs 20 points?? It seems very dodgy...

And this is quite an important thing to discuss as the marine company can take 3 such artillery platoons (not to mention the time on target bonus on them...)
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Re: Banzai & Gung Ho

Postby Doktor Helge » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:35 pm

Rugi I totally agree
Gung Ho is too much off on to Many parametres
And it is not the US army that fought the japanese in 1941

I was only whishfully thinking that there were an EW briefing for the "US Army Forces in the Far East (USAFFE)"
This would be a very interesting EW briefing I Think combined US national guard units, Navy personel and Phillipine infantry units
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