[Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

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pizzaguardian
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[Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby pizzaguardian » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:04 pm

1. Which ruleset do you want for ETC 2018?
A. v3 FoW
B. v4 FoW
C. Team Yankee

2. Do you want to discard the EW>MW>LW cycle?
A. Yes
B. No

3. If the cycle is discarded which version do you want?
A. EW
B. MW
C. LW



BALLOTS:
You must send the vote by PM to me (pizzaguardian), indicating:

Subject: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Body:
Team X

Votes as:

RULES FOR THE VOTE:
Send a PM to me as explained above


Vote will run for 2 weeks (ENDS 4th of September at 23:59h CEST)


We will use the Condorcet Method, so keep to the following example when voting. A team can only vote if they have attended ETC 2016 Athens or ETC 2017 Salamanca.

Team Isle of Man

Votes as :

1. A>C>B

2. B>A

3. B>C>A
2018 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen
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pizzaguardian
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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby pizzaguardian » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:04 pm

Alrighty than,

The time is up and the results are in, 23 teams have voted out of 26 eligible which is a wonderful turnout.

For question 1 the winner is

B. v4 FoW


It beat option A 19 times and option C 22 times and the winner of the Condorcet.

For question 2 the winner

B. No


It beat option A 17 times.

Question 3 is null.



Flames of War ETC 2018 will be played in v4. The era cycle is not discarded so it will be Early War for 2018!
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Trick08
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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Trick08 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:03 pm

Thank you once again for getting our collective asses organised.

So what points peeps?

Trick

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Tito » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:51 am

Trick08 wrote:Thank you once again for getting our collective asses organised.

So what points peeps?

Trick

Now v4 early is confirmed.
I think we should quickly vote for points and for the composition of the roster. I mean, are we going to confirm the 2+2+2 logic or not?
Then we should decide who attacks (old logic, more mission logic or a more mission adapted for a team tournament).
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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Mongol » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:46 am

Tito wrote:Now v4 early is confirmed.
I think we should quickly vote for points and for the composition of the roster. I mean, are we going to confirm the 2+2+2 logic or not?
Then we should decide who attacks (old logic, more mission logic or a more mission adapted for a team tournament).

+1 to this, we shouldn't waste time.
FOW Team Russia Captain 2018
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WFB Team Slovenia 2015 (Legionnaire)

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Angelfred » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:53 am

#Comitee
Team France ETC FoW 2012/2013/2014/2015/2017

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby TheMarko » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:20 pm

Angelfred wrote:#Comitee


+1
There is no problem, a large artillery template can't solve.

ETC 2012 - Team Serbia - Designated driver. ;)
ETC 2013 - Tech support for orgas, other organisational stuff.
ETC 2014 - WHB technical referee.
ETC 2015 - Sidekick FoW referee.
ETC 2016 - Chairman.
ETC 2017 - FoW referee, NOT the most favourite person on the venue :D.
ETC 2018 - Planning on being there, since there are no 'muricans in EW still striving towards the title of most consecutive ETC-s visited without playing a single game.

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby graham » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:17 pm

There are a lot of questions to be addressed to make v4 work for ETC and also to make sure we have a watertight rules pack for EW. I support the idea of giving the job of drafting all this to a committee.

Why a committee? Any forum is great for raising questions. It is moderately good at discussing them - only "moderately" because people don't read all the posts, forget some of the arguments and drift off topic. It is pretty mediocre at agreeing a set of proposals for the above reasons plus it is even harder to discuss the overall balance of a set of proposals.

The size of the committee should be limited because a large group becomes a talking shop and the Forum already fulfils that function. I would suggest no more than six members, all from different teams.

I suggest that we give the following mandate to the committee:

The committee should be composed of captains from up to six teams. The members will be selected from volunteer captains. If there are more than six volunteers, a vote should be organised, with each team given six votes. The six volunteers with the most votes will be the members of the committee.

The committee will:
    Draft a proposal on how to adapt ETC-specific aspects of the game to run under v4. (ETC-specific aspects include how many lists from a given nation, what about 2/2/2, how to do the pairings, who attacks, how to select the mission(s), what about battle plans...)
    Draft a rules pack for EW v4. (To provide clarifications on aspects that are not ETC-specific and not yet addressed in LFTF. There are a number of issues that need looking at, which is hardly surprising given that the EW books are mostly v2 with some patches to carry them over to v3. This rules pack would be an annex to the current "don't be a dick" main rulespack.)
The committee will present its conclusions on ETC-specific aspects by mid-October. There will be a two-week comment period on the Forum. Then the committee will have a week to revise its proposal in the light of the comments. The revised proposal should then be presented for a yes-no vote. In case of a no vote, we revert to discussing on the Forum until a new vote can be prepared.

The same approach will apply to the EW-v4 rules pack.

Note that I am not proposing to give control to the committee - the captains would still decide through the normal voting process. The committee would just do the heavy lifting in preparation for the vote.

Full disclosure - I have been quietly working on the above aspects for about three weeks now together with a handful of other captains who volunteered to help. Our work is far from complete. I had no mandate to do this and I claim no right to be on the committee, though I am a volunteer. No hard feelings if I am not a member - this is a lot of work! I will of course be happy to share the incomplete work with the committee whether I am a member or not.
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby TheMarko » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Great stuff Graham, Good to see initiative. One thing I would change is to odd number of captains (5 or 7, better 5), and possibly drop the captain clause, there are many smart and thoughtful people in the hobby who could bring high quality to the table, but are not captains (and not enough captains might volunteer in the first place).
The fact is that some things will have to be settled by vote, and even number of members means possible ties. Also one person should be appointed as commissar of the committee. Not to shoot people at will, but to possibly have final word in tied situations and to be held responsible for the work and schedule of committee . . . It will not be a glorious position to be in, but I think a necessary one.
To be clear, I am not volunteering, for any committee . . . But I support this initiative wholeheartedly . . .
There is no problem, a large artillery template can't solve.

ETC 2012 - Team Serbia - Designated driver. ;)
ETC 2013 - Tech support for orgas, other organisational stuff.
ETC 2014 - WHB technical referee.
ETC 2015 - Sidekick FoW referee.
ETC 2016 - Chairman.
ETC 2017 - FoW referee, NOT the most favourite person on the venue :D.
ETC 2018 - Planning on being there, since there are no 'muricans in EW still striving towards the title of most consecutive ETC-s visited without playing a single game.

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby graham » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:07 pm

Thanks Marko. I agree about numbers and captains.

It's been suggested that I ought to start a new thread on this. I will repost my ideas there... I look forward to your comments. :D
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby M1le » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:32 am

Angelfred wrote:#Comitee


+1, Although we can initiate a point vote straight away. The rest can be taken care by the comitee.

Regards
FOW Team Slovenia Spokesman
Team Slovenia FoW player 2015

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby graham » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 pm

Agreed - the point vote should go ahead now.
Graham
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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Dave A » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:50 pm

Disagree. Points should be decided after we have a context of how the pairing, army selection etc will be done, and after we all have more V4 experience with the BF changes (and possibly ETC specific changes).
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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby Trick08 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:12 am

Dave A wrote:Disagree. Points should be decided after we have a context of how the pairing, army selection etc will be done, and after we all have more V4 experience with the BF changes (and possibly ETC specific changes).

Nah just do it now and get that bit resolved then we have a rock solid starting point to work out the rest

Trick

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Re: [Captains] [ETC 2018] Vote for ETC FoW Version

Postby tarnowski1 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:26 am

Trick08 wrote:
Dave A wrote:Disagree. Points should be decided after we have a context of how the pairing, army selection etc will be done, and after we all have more V4 experience with the BF changes (and possibly ETC specific changes).

Nah just do it now and get that bit resolved then we have a rock solid starting point to work out the rest

Trick


Agreed, its effectively an inaugural year so lets not sweat it too much, if the gut feel is V4 runs quick , call it 1650ish and lets paint more toys.

Regards
Matt
Matt

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