Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Lynx » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:27 pm

Arkon wrote:I have no problems with Steve in, I just want to avoid any disussions beforhand :)


+1 and seems pretty obvious to have someone with excellent BF contact in that comitee :D .
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:03 pm

I have no issues with being on or not. I was offering my services as a conduit to bf.

I think it's better if only one player from each nation.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Reksio » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:42 pm

I can help if Yegr will provide his blessing for this mission. I intended to push BF about the tournament rules pack anyway :)
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:28 pm

I think someone from your team would be very good.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby graham » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:28 pm

I understand your concerns about both Steve and me being involved. I think he was just offering to pass along our thoughts to BF. Still, it would be much clearer if only one of us from Team England were involved. I will speak to Steve and get back to you.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Arkon » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:24 pm

Hi Graham,

I have no concern ar all, just wanted to point out possible conflicts.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby graham » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm

I'll leave it to the other captains to decide then. If you'd prefer not have two England players in the process, then Steve won't get be involved in passing on the work of the committee to BF and he is cool with that. If do you want to use his existing contacts with BF, that's fine too.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Lynx » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:40 pm

No concerns at all guys it's a thought of a concept the thing is to have people getting forward fast and for the interests of the tow community without have huge vote questions and debates for ages.
If there is no objection to have two person of a same team than fine for me.
I will offer my service as well but I'm leaving it to the tow community to decide who the 5 council member will be.

Always think about it this solution is for the greater good and future of our beloved game.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Trick08 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:21 pm

Is there a reason/thing preventing us from using V3 to do the list construction phase for EW 2018, which allows us to control the Tank/Mech/Inf dynamic and the number of formations etc remains fit for purpose, but using V4 rules to play the games?

Trick

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Jonny65 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:38 pm

Trick08 wrote:Is there a reason/thing preventing us from using V3 to do the list construction phase for EW 2018, which allows us to control the Tank/Mech/Inf dynamic and the number of formations etc remains fit for purpose, but using V4 rules to play the games?

Trick

Makes sense to me.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Jonny65 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Regarding this proposed committee, what are their powers going to be? Are they going to discuss ideas for the Captains' Council to vote on, or are they going to be able to bypass the CC altogether? Is this streamlining really necessary, shouldn't every team have a voice in the future of ETC FOW?
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Trick08 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:48 pm

Jonny65 wrote:Regarding this proposed committee, what are their powers going to be? Are they going to discuss ideas for the Captains' Council to vote on, or are they going to be able to bypass the CC altogether? Is this streamlining really necessary, shouldn't every team have a voice in the future of ETC FOW?

Not keen on a committee to be honest at this stage...we need to talk more as a collective first IMO

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Dave A » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:15 pm

graham wrote:I'll leave it to the other captains to decide then. If you'd prefer not have two England players in the process, then Steve won't get be involved in passing on the work of the committee to BF and he is cool with that. If do you want to use his existing contacts with BF, that's fine too.


Hi Graham,

I also would claim to have reasonable contacts with BF if those are needed if people object to two Team England people being involved. I'd aim to setup direct contacts between yourselves (the comittee) and BF rather than act as a conduit so that the message isn't confused in transmission, but I'll do what I can.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Tito » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:09 pm

Trick08 wrote:Is there a reason/thing preventing us from using V3 to do the list construction phase for EW 2018, which allows us to control the Tank/Mech/Inf dynamic and the number of formations etc remains fit for purpose, but using V4 rules to play the games?

Trick

+1
At this moment would be enough a vote on that, while the committee would contact BF later for any rule issues, but not for construction phase. For construction phase I also include always Attack/always defend and the way to decide who attacks (tank>mec>inf).
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Trick08 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Tito wrote:
Trick08 wrote:Is there a reason/thing preventing us from using V3 to do the list construction phase for EW 2018, which allows us to control the Tank/Mech/Inf dynamic and the number of formations etc remains fit for purpose, but using V4 rules to play the games?

Trick

+1
At this moment would be enough a vote on that, while the committee would contact BF later for any rule issues, but not for construction phase. For construction phase I also include always Attack/always defend and the way to decide who attacks (tank>mec>inf).

So to expand on this is there any reason/issue with us just using the V3 mission pack with v4 rules?

Trick

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Shawn Morris » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:22 am

I wanted to float this idea as well concerning the matchups and potentially the missions as well.

Pairing process proposal:
Each team does pairings by origonal process with the following step added. Each team will have 3 attack and 3 defend cards. Teams are given 10 mins to decide in secret what action they want to do (attack or defend, this can included within the 30 min match up process). Teams place the attack or defend cards face down on their side of the match ups. Once both teams have placed all cards they are flipped over. If the cards are opposite to each other the attacker and defender have been decided. If they are the same team captains with roll of to Settle the tie, the winner will choose get the choice they selected. (ie if both are defend choices the roll of winner is the defend). It potentially allows infantry to attack tank or mech if the controlling team wishes that, or defend if that is also their wish. It also eliminates a team from having all attacking or defending match ups.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Yegr » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:05 am

Reksio wrote:I can help if Yegr will provide his blessing for this mission. I intended to push BF about the tournament rules pack anyway :)

That is a Go - Reksio. You have my blessing to pursue tge matter of the rulespack on behalf of team Poland.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:00 am

Firstly any change in the rules must be by a minimum change as possible. The reason for this is that when you then play this version they will be different in theme and style to fow. This will then cause issues in any location around the world getting them adopted.

Next too many people on the committee nothing will be done. It is ok for people to bring up suggestions of things to be talked about and then for the committee to discuss them. They may not then use them.

I think then they produce a document for the ETC to look at.

I would say one thing though bf ARE already working on certain things with v4 to be changed, this first part is missions. This will include victory conditions, so the committee should leave those bits at the moment.

Look I understand that lots want their say but nothing will be done. So far this thread has gone on for three/four pages of procrastination guess what NOTHING DONE.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:10 am

So far we have representatives from

1. Poland
2. England
3. France
4. Greece

These are great people and teams who all have respect and a good fow community really I would have thought one from either of USA/Canada or Australia would also be a good fit.

Once this is agreed on we can set parameters for them to work. Once they have produced a set of amendments/clarifications then this should be put forward to the ETC captains. Once a general vote for or against it, this by whoever will discuss this with bf.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:15 am

Tito wrote:
Trick08 wrote:Is there a reason/thing preventing us from using V3 to do the list construction phase for EW 2018, which allows us to control the Tank/Mech/Inf dynamic and the number of formations etc remains fit for purpose, but using V4 rules to play the games?

Trick

+1
At this moment would be enough a vote on that, while the committee would contact BF later for any rule issues, but not for construction phase. For construction phase I also include always Attack/always defend and the way to decide who attacks (tank>mec>inf).


There are obvious issues with this there are no auto attack and defend etc in v4. This is a fundamental change of the rules. Bf are working on new missions which may solve this. I know this is best of intentions but at first we must tread very carefully.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:21 am

I know in my country I do not want to turn people against the ETC, this can easily be done if we change too much it must be subtle and in keeping so it enhances ANY PERSONS play NOT JUST the ETC. If you do it purely for the purpose of the ETC it antagonises so many people and people say typical just for the ETC players.

The ETC is NOT the be all and end ALL. It is not the best event I have been to better ran events, it's the toughest and then there are the people -YOU who make it so unique. We don't want to turn people off wanting to strive to come to the ETC because of our perceived arrogance.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Tito » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:49 am

stevec wrote:There are obvious issues with this there are no auto attack and defend etc in v4. This is a fundamental change of the rules. Bf are working on new missions which may solve this. I know this is best of intentions but at first we must tread very carefully.

Steve, since you have direct contact with BF please just ask if they are going to reintroduce the tank/mec/inf logic for choosing who attacks. I'm quite confident they will answer "never".

As I previously say I can see only two ways (It doesn't mean that there are not other ways, just I can't see them):

-we can just say that every team must have 2 tanks, 2 mec, 2 inf but the it doesn't have any effect on who attacks. For choosing who attacks we can use the More Mission pdf, giving at each team 2 Attack Cards, 2 Manouvre Cards and 2 Defend Cards. These cards have to be done to a list after pairings.
This means no change of rules.

-we can say that every team must have 2 tanks, 2 mec, 2 inf and, as it was t for V3, a tank company attacks mec and inf, while a mec attacks inf, keeping the always Attack/always defend.
This means a big change of rules as you said.


If someone, as Shawn, has another idea will be great to know it! :wink:
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Arkon » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:15 am

To me there are two different levels that have to be looked at and that have different impact on us

First level is about the rules in general, that would affect all players around the globe and were BF will allow only subtle, reasonable changes.

Second level is the ETC specific one, were, at least in my opinion, we are free to fit FoW to our needs, not in the rules itself (changing movement distances or whatever) but all the stuff that makes FoW playable at an ETC.
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby stevec » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:19 am

I will ask and see what I can do.

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby graham » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:55 am

In response to the questions about the role of the committee, I was picking up on Lynx's suggestion some days ago:
Give us, as suggested by Yger, until end of October to play test V4 early as is and send our pow to a former designated/voted captain comitee that will compile all data's to send to BF for improvement.
If by end of january there has been no feedback nor improvement from BF, the comitee will work on a rulepack to concurre V4 with the ETC requirements (I.e missions, Soviet horde, Arty blobs, formation/nation limitation and so on)

Let's not worry about the exact mandate for now. We still have to have the vote on rule version and, maybe, period. Once we've had that vote, we can decide what role to give the committee.

In the meantime, there is some actual work to do and I will make a start now. You may recall that a couple of years ago I put together a list of changes and clarifications to support the MW ETC. In the end it was overtaken by a document that BF put out but I think it's a useful model. I’m therefore going to start putting together a similar thing for v4 EW ETC.

We have volunteers from Poland (Reksio), France (Lynx), Greece (Arkon) and Canada (Shawn). Please would Reksio, Lynx and Shawn send me an email so that we can exchange more easily? I already have Arkon’s address. You can find my address on the first sticky thread with all the captains’ details. Do let me have your ideas and suggestions too please.

To everyone else - this doesn’t prejudice any decisions. Indeed the captains may collectively decide to put the whole thing in the bin.
Graham
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Shawn Morris » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:42 am

Cheers,
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby M1le » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:04 pm

If the community accepts I would like to nominate Jan Rugelj (Team Slovenia) to the commitee. Jan has plenty of experience with FOW and has a deep understanding of the game, both of V3 and V4. He also won the ESC in 2015 and played with Team Finland this year, because team Slovenia couldn't attend the ETC. His e-mail is: rugelj.jan(at)gmail.com
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby graham » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:26 pm

If any group gets too big it becomes less effective, regardless of how good the participants are.

I am happy to have Jan on board but I would prefer to close the nominations after that. I hope the community can accept this. Bear in mind that the committee is not deciding anything, just doing work in our spare time to submit to all the captains later.
Graham
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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby Chrisj5154 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:50 pm

I would also be interested in being on the Captain's committee. Chris Jackson, Team USA

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Re: Periode and version discussion for ETC 2018

Postby BohicaCanada » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 pm

I am a bit disturbed by the talk of modifying V4 to ETC. Would it not be better to challenge players to move beyond their comfort zones?

Would BF support ETC changing missions and victory conditions to fit ETC?

Forcing players to design their lists to defend or attack, against tank/mech/inf would create a new dynamic and challenge players in a good way.

I am not convinced yet that EW/LW are V4 ready and I think MW would be a better choice even with the limited army selections for the next ETC


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