Last minute V3 rules questions

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Angelfred
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Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Angelfred » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:26 am

Hi guys and gales,

Two questions from one of our player :

1. Mobile Reserves and platoons composed of Infantry teams + "vehicles" : can the player decide to only deploy the Infantry teams and not the vehicles (vehicles are not plaid, taking no part in the battle) so that the platoon can be on board at the start of the game ?
=> as per p269, we believe yes

2. Infiltration : if several Soviets Infiltrations are made, do the opponent rolls 1 die to detect the infiltrated troops per infiltration, or a single one for all ?
=> as per p250, we believe 1 die per Infiltration (so if 2 are made, 2 dice, each needing 6)

Sorry if the answers seem obvious, but being a bit rusty on V3, safer to ask before the event to prevent rules conflict during the event

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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby tarnowski1 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:35 am

Hi Fred,

1- Yes also as I understand it. Ditch the. vehicles and you are golden

2- Phil 'clarifies' it here

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx ... &afv=topic

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Matt
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Angelfred » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:56 am

Thanks Matt for the digging !
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby graham » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:18 am

Interesting answer on point 1. I'd always thought of it in terms of not deploying transports but I think you are both right in that you could drop (a) tank team(s).
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby TheTonyDavis » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:38 pm

1. There is nothing in the rules about not deploying some of the teams in the platoon aside from transport teams. The Mobile Reserves rule does allow you to leave transports behind for the game but there is nothing in there about BT deploying tank teams. As such, you can volunteer to leave transports off the table in order to deploy the platoon but if it includes a tank team then you must put that platoon in reserve or it counts as your Mobile platoon.


2. There are two rolls when making two infiltrations. Guaranteed that even if our opponent forgets we will be reminding them to roll both because that is the way we play!
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby graham » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:49 pm

1. The mobile reserves rule on page 269 refers to both tank and transport teams in the first italicised paragraph. The phrase "platoons... that wish to use their tanks and transport... must be held in Reserves" is surely the basis for the normal interpretation that those platoons that do not wish to use their transports don't deploy them and so can start with their other teams on table. The text of the rule gives me no reason not to apply the same logic to tank teams.

The second italicised paragraph talks about armoured transport teams. In the UK, we puzzled over it and concluded that it meant that armoured transports were the only transports that could not be brought forward. Then there was a discussion on the Forum (which of course I cannot find) and Phil intervened to say that neither armoured not unarmoured transports could be brought forward. So my reading is that the second paragraph is confirmation that Phil designs great rules but that he cannot draft text to say what he means even if his life depends on it. Sarcasm aside, given Phil's reaction this paragraph is void of meaning. In any case, I don't think it is relevant to the tank team/transport team discussion that Fred is raising.

The third and fourth italicised paragraphs are not relevant to this discussion

Fred - if this ever matters, Jean-Michel owes me a beer :D ...And if it matters in a game against me, Tony is right. :twisted:


2. Yes, we all agree.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Doktor Helge » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:59 pm

One other question
If an attacking force with Patton Wins by taking the objektive, but Patton dies, and it would otherwise have been a 4-3 victory

Does the attacker loose the Big point then ?
A few years back at Etc we had the problem and it was ruled that since the attacker took the objektive, and won the mission. The attacker Got the Big point
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Angelfred » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 am

Doktor Helge wrote:One other question
If an attacking force with Patton Wins by taking the objektive, but Patton dies, and it would otherwise have been a 4-3 victory

Does the attacker loose the Big point then ?
A few years back at Etc we had the problem and it was ruled that since the attacker took the objektive, and won the mission. The attacker Got the Big point


Victory first (so 1-0) then small points as goal average (so 3-4).
I think it has been in the rulespack and in the essence of ETC since 2012 ...
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby TheTonyDavis » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Luckily the scoring system has an entry for big points instead of just extrapolating who won like BFs software does.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby sovietpride » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:59 pm

Actually the rulespack says that by penalty a 4-3 turns into a 3-4, its transforms into an oponent victory no matter who took the objective or formally won the game. Frankly, I dont think that a 3-4 with a dead Patton "Victory" should be different.

PD: In my team we field Patton.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby TheTonyDavis » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:32 pm

The rulespack only says that a result changed to 3-4 because of penalty for slow play changes the score of the game. The rulespack is quite clear that a win is a win and earns a BP unless the score is altered because of nefarious play.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Angelfred » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:04 am

+1 with Tony
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby sovietpride » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:21 am

The penalty for slow play is analogous to the penalty for lossing Patton. Why would the nature of the penalty has an influence on the outcome?

Not taking that into account, in FOW a 3-4 is a defeat, therefore taking an objective but lossing Patton and 3+ platoons means lossing the game.

Certainly the issue is not a 100% clear so I pressume teams will do what better suits their interest, hope the referees can imposse a common solution if this situation takes place.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Yegr » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:03 am

A scenario victory is still a victory. Small points are still what they are. It's not the time to change the rules.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Angelfred » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:35 am

@Jorge : don't misinterpret : the PENALTIES for wrongful playing have nothing to do with the Small Points.
If you win, you score 1 big point. Period.
Losing Carrius or Patton has nothing to do with the big points system.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby sovietpride » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:12 am

As I said is best for our team... but certainly a 3-4 in FOW is a defeat result so its certainly quite an ambiguous "victory".

Big points arent in the FOW rules, so mixing it with the MRB can create some odd situations. The consensus seems to be Patton and the like only affect PV but no victory status, so thats fine for me.
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Re: Last minute V3 rules questions

Postby Frogdog » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:44 pm

Sovietpride, you seem to think this is a Battlefront tournament. This is the ETC and the ETC has different rules. Big points are what we're all playing for.
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