ETC FoW 2017 Lists

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Mongol
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Mongol » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:05 pm

Jonny65 wrote:Regarding the PO lists, I'm happy enough with Team Russia's proposal.

I'd always read the rule that if you have no tanks in your HQ, you can take whatever combo of tank units you like. Forces obviously thought the same, as it doesn't flag a mixture of tanks as an error.


Well the same for us, and Forces doesn't restrict from doing so...

pizzaguardian wrote:I suggest minimum change to fit lists to legality, spare points will be it's own penalty.

It's too harsh penalty really.
We will prefer to loose some small points rather than to get a player that has to play with broken list.
This will make one of us unhappy right from the start, and will significantly ruin the sportsmanship of the tournament.

By the way current rulepack says: "any necessary changes made ASAP with minimal changes to the list."
I think that our offers is exactly about it. We suggest minimal changes, but with possibility to keep list still playable.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Ostroc » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:50 pm

Whilst I sympathize with any language difficulties, the rules Pack is specific

by all means change the T34s to Matildas or the Matildas to T34s, so long as only one Platoon (or company in this case) is changed, but if you add points to additional units this is not a minimal change.

Neither is there an option to accept additional small points loss and do what you want, it must still be a minimal change.

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Roger » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:21 pm

Just so I get this right..

We are going to set precident that a wrong list can be submitted and then altered post lists being public with no restrictions to the least alterations possible and no penalties?

I would expect a lot of "errors" next year on that basis...
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:23 pm

The thing is this can now be manipulated which is not fair on every other player at the event. You can make a change and only have 5 points under, it may not be the change you want but that's one of those things. You have now seen every other list and being able to make changes across the list is not fair either.

We said a few weeks ago if there were things you weren't sure of ask. When you do a list for the ETC you know you must check any PDF, lftf updates, books and forces to check. This is the players responsibility.

For instance we found a list with crusader tractors listed as tanks so we checked everywhere and they were listed elsewhere as transport.

If you make the minimum change it will not change your list massively.

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:24 pm

+1 to Roger

Be very careful this could be a dangerous president.

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby TheTonyDavis » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:28 pm

Team USA does not feel that their list is illegal. The rule as written reads:

Any tanks in your Peredovoye Otryad HQ, and in your Combat and Weapons Tankovy Company, Gvardeyskiy Tankovy Company, or Inomarochnikiy Tankovy Company, must be the same type of tank. However, Tankovy Companies may be equipped with a mix of T-34/76 and T-34/85 tanks.

This, in our opinion, doesn't restrict you to one type of tank in the HQ, Combat and Weapons slots because it lists the different types of Tankovy options in all those slots. In our opinion it is there to restrict you from taking 75 and 76mm Shermans in two squares or T34s and Matildas in two squares. Given that this is an interpretation of what is written and that neither side is going to convince the other I have contacted BF to see what is right or wrong and will hold off on any further actions until their response.

As to list changes, the rules pack says that minimal changes need made. The ruels pack doesn't specify that changes can only be made to one platoon/company or even specify how many platoons/companies can be altered to make the list legal. Lists should be made legal with as minimal changes as possible up to the 1625 limit. The idea that we are insisting on Russia take less that 1625 points in their list is absurd to us. Adding another SU100 or SU85M still falls under the 'minimal changes' outlined in the rules pack!

Edit: PS: On discussing the fairness after seeing other lists you have to be kidding right? The archetype lists that were expected to be there are there and there aren't any big surprises in lists taken. If you are surprised by what is taken then you may have bigger issues than someone adding a tank or upgrading something to get their new list to 1625. If you think there is benefit to having to use a list you haven't been practicing for months over have been practicing then you need to reevaluate your position!!!
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Mongol » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:02 pm

TheTonyDavis wrote:Team USA does not feel that their list is illegal. The rule as written reads:

Any tanks in your Peredovoye Otryad HQ, and in your Combat and Weapons Tankovy Company, Gvardeyskiy Tankovy Company, or Inomarochnikiy Tankovy Company, must be the same type of tank. However, Tankovy Companies may be equipped with a mix of T-34/76 and T-34/85 tanks.

This, in our opinion, doesn't restrict you to one type of tank in the HQ, Combat and Weapons slots because it lists the different types of Tankovy options in all those slots. In our opinion it is there to restrict you from taking 75 and 76mm Shermans in two squares or T34s and Matildas in two squares. Given that this is an interpretation of what is written and that neither side is going to convince the other I have contacted BF to see what is right or wrong and will hold off on any further actions until their response.

As to list changes, the rules pack says that minimal changes need made. The ruels pack doesn't specify that changes can only be made to one platoon/company or even specify how many platoons/companies can be altered to make the list legal. Lists should be made legal with as minimal changes as possible up to the 1625 limit. The idea that we are insisting on Russia take less that 1625 points in their list is absurd to us. Adding another SU100 or SU85M still falls under the 'minimal changes' outlined in the rules pack!

Edit: PS: On discussing the fairness after seeing other lists you have to be kidding right? The archetype lists that were expected to be there are there and there aren't any big surprises in lists taken. If you are surprised by what is taken then you may have bigger issues than someone adding a tank or upgrading something to get their new list to 1625. If you think there is benefit to having to use a list you haven't been practicing for months over have been practicing then you need to reevaluate your position!!!


on behalf of Team Russia captain:
We absolutely support Team USA in this question.
Furthermore, our teammate used exactly the same PO list on ETC Warm-up in Munchen this year and it was totally fine.
Maybe we are really reading the rule wrong?
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby sovietpride » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Well, lets the affected teams post the propossed changes and then the rest of the captains can consider if the changes are «minimum» or not.

In any case, teams should pay 1 sp, per modified list as the rulespack points out.

BTW forces has allowed in the past non valid layouts so the reference continue to be the books (plus any errata on them). Hope BF can settle the rules issue quickly (hope Tonys interpretation is correct because it will save all this mess, but if that is the case the rulling wording is terribly confusing, which of course is only BF fault).
Last edited by sovietpride on Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Neth Havoc » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:16 pm

Arkon wrote:
Neth Havoc wrote:
Arkon wrote:So will Team Greece get a bonus small point then for being the only team able to send a PO-list according to the rules without being native speakers? :mrgreen:
Yes, if you would be the only team... :P :wink:


Eleven teams applied Peredovoy Otryad for ETC
According to the rule from Red Bear: Austria, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Canada, Romania, Russia, USA and Italy made mistakes in the lists.
It's actually 9 from 11

We are, Team UN is out of the race :D

Our PO list is correct... :!:
If you think differently, then please tell me, what I don't see! :?:

@Tony
Sorry, I'm not a native speaker... But for me the rule is clear, just one type of tank. There is also an "or" (and not an "and") between the different named Tankovy Companys, because you have basically to choose one type of company (e.g. Tankovy Company) and can't take the other options (e. g. no Tankovy Company and Gvardevdski Tankovy Company). And only in a Tankovy Company you can mix some T-34/85 in.
I don't see another interpretation. And I don't get your point reagarding "because it lists the different types of Tankovy options in all those slots"?!
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:41 pm

Neth Havoc wrote:
Arkon wrote:
Neth Havoc wrote:Yes, if you would be the only team... :P :wink:


Eleven teams applied Peredovoy Otryad for ETC
According to the rule from Red Bear: Austria, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Canada, Romania, Russia, USA and Italy made mistakes in the lists.
It's actually 9 from 11

We are, Team UN is out of the race :D

Our PO list is correct... :!:
If you think differently, then please tell me, what I don't see! :?:


I am quoting Mongol on this and will now add this missing sentence

"If we use a rule from Forces, than there would be much less invalid lists, only:
Ireland, Russia, USA made mistakes, mostly because Light Tankovy Company is not mentioned in the rule"

Maybe you should relax a bit, ETC has not started yet \:D/
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby DaveM » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:53 pm

I suggest we move with caution here. Tony has made a request to BF for clarification.
Perhaps we can afford to wait to see if this helps at all?

We need to come up with a solution that most closely conforms to the rules, yet doesn't overly penalise anyone. After all we have all committed a lot of cash, vacation and family time to be in Salamanca and we all want it to be a great event.

Also consider that if 9 teams from 11 have submitted "illegal" PO lists, then it is clearly not a deliberate abuse of the rule and is more likely a common misunderstanding of that rule. It might be interesting to know why the 2 teams that submitted a "correct" PO list did so because they understood the rule, or simply preferred the mix of troops as submitted?
However I don't think wholesale changes to the roster should be permitted and a "peer" review of proposed changes may be the best way forward in this case?

For future ETC's I propose we have an earlier list submission date to a central orga. This orga then "anonymises" the rosters (i.e. removes player name/nationality) and simply calls it Tank list 123, mech 014 etc and distributes the lists among a cadre of list checkers. These then report back to the orga saying "Tank 123" has wrong platoon etc then orga can x-check the list to see which Team Captain needs to be informed to make minimal change.

However this should not detract from the fact that each Team captain is responsible for ensuring he submits correct lists in the 1st place.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Neth Havoc » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:13 pm

Arkon wrote:
Neth Havoc wrote:
Arkon wrote:
Eleven teams applied Peredovoy Otryad for ETC
According to the rule from Red Bear: Austria, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Canada, Romania, Russia, USA and Italy made mistakes in the lists.
It's actually 9 from 11

We are, Team UN is out of the race :D

Our PO list is correct... :!:
If you think differently, then please tell me, what I don't see! :?:


I am quoting Mongol on this and will now add this missing sentence

"If we use a rule from Forces, than there would be much less invalid lists, only:
Ireland, Russia, USA made mistakes, mostly because Light Tankovy Company is not mentioned in the rule"

Maybe you should relax a bit, ETC has not started yet \:D/
But your PO also has a Light Tankovy Company?! So basically Mongol has missed Greece in his list of teams... :D :wink:

DaveM wrote:Also consider that if 9 teams from 11 have submitted "illegal" PO lists, then it is clearly not a deliberate abuse of the rule and is more likely a common misunderstanding of that rule.
But there are not 10 teams with an "illegal" PO list, just 3 teams...

Red Bear (Revised Edition) Errata
Peredovoye Otryad HQ (page 105): The rule box under the Peredovoye Otryad HQ should read:
Any tanks in your Peredovoye Otryad HQ, and in your Combat and Weapons Tankovy Company, Gvardeyskiy Tankovy Company, or Inomarochnikiy Tankovy Company, must be the same type of tank. However, Tankovy Companies may be equipped with a mix of T-34/76 and T-34/85 tanks.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby sovietpride » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:16 pm

Just to be clear about the Peredoye Issue, only three lists are on doubt right now (lets see if BF staff answers Tony quickly) because they have two different type of tanks in tankovy companies, the other are ok since under the latest errata light tankovy companies are not affected by the rule in dispute.

I have also double checked the Brazilian list from Ireland, if this one is the latest PDF of the list (http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=209) then the only diference with the team Ireland list is on the INTELLIGENCE & RECON PLATOON which has a new format (50 cal recon jeep plus three recon jeeps, no infantry) and cost 105 points instead of 65 points.

The problem is that this PDF has wrong points on this unit since it should cost actually 65 points (like other equivalent CT American unit)... so my propossal is either leave the submitted list as it currently is or put a note on easy army pointing out the new format of the unit but not changing the list neither the points.

What those the Irish captain think about the issue?
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:18 pm

Hi Dave,

we would have loved to have a mix of Lees and Mathildas but as the rules clearly indicates to us (and me who played the PO at a few tournaments during the years) that only one type of tank can be used we have gone for the valantines in the light tankovy Slot.

By the way, I have never ever met someone who was of the opinion that this rule should prevent him from buying five Lees and five T34 in the same Slot :lol:
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Neth Havoc wrote:
Arkon wrote:
Neth Havoc wrote:Our PO list is correct... :!:
If you think differently, then please tell me, what I don't see! :?:


I am quoting Mongol on this and will now add this missing sentence

"If we use a rule from Forces, than there would be much less invalid lists, only:
Ireland, Russia, USA made mistakes, mostly because Light Tankovy Company is not mentioned in the rule"

Maybe you should relax a bit, ETC has not started yet \:D/
But your PO also has a Light Tankovy Company?! So basically Mongol has missed Greece in his list of teams... :D :wink:


Maybe, but thats not my fault :8)
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:25 pm

stevec wrote:I guess you could have a euro taken off the national debt Thomas....good boy ;) :D


A cold beer served by you will do as well :)
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:39 pm

I will happily buy all your team a nice cold wet beer.... hmmm my mouths watering now. :)

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Spackledgoat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Mongol wrote:
TheTonyDavis wrote:Team USA does not feel that their list is illegal. The rule as written reads:

Any tanks in your Peredovoye Otryad HQ, and in your Combat and Weapons Tankovy Company, Gvardeyskiy Tankovy Company, or Inomarochnikiy Tankovy Company, must be the same type of tank. However, Tankovy Companies may be equipped with a mix of T-34/76 and T-34/85 tanks.

This, in our opinion, doesn't restrict you to one type of tank in the HQ, Combat and Weapons slots because it lists the different types of Tankovy options in all those slots. In our opinion it is there to restrict you from taking 75 and 76mm Shermans in two squares or T34s and Matildas in two squares. Given that this is an interpretation of what is written and that neither side is going to convince the other I have contacted BF to see what is right or wrong and will hold off on any further actions until their response.

As to list changes, the rules pack says that minimal changes need made. The ruels pack doesn't specify that changes can only be made to one platoon/company or even specify how many platoons/companies can be altered to make the list legal. Lists should be made legal with as minimal changes as possible up to the 1625 limit. The idea that we are insisting on Russia take less that 1625 points in their list is absurd to us. Adding another SU100 or SU85M still falls under the 'minimal changes' outlined in the rules pack!

Edit: PS: On discussing the fairness after seeing other lists you have to be kidding right? The archetype lists that were expected to be there are there and there aren't any big surprises in lists taken. If you are surprised by what is taken then you may have bigger issues than someone adding a tank or upgrading something to get their new list to 1625. If you think there is benefit to having to use a list you haven't been practicing for months over have been practicing then you need to reevaluate your position!!!


on behalf of Team Russia captain:
We absolutely support Team USA in this question.
Furthermore, our teammate used exactly the same PO list on ETC Warm-up in Munchen this year and it was totally fine.
Maybe we are really reading the rule wrong?


I don't think this interpretation is very strong at all given the text.

If the interpretation was as you propose, there would be no reason for the Gvardesyskiy Tankovy Company to be listed, nor would there be any reason for the Peredovoye Utryad HQ be listed. There is no option for different types of Guards tankovy tanks (the only have T-34/85) and there is no second HQ option to occupy a second box.

If your interpretation was correct, only the Tankovy Company and Inomarochnikiy Company would need to be listed. However, the text includes the other company types. It does not, however, list the light tank companies. If the intent was merely to list all types of tank companies possible, that company would be listed. We have to assume that the drafters of the text did not simply add language without meaning.

Compare this with the interpretation that says all tanks within the stated universe of units (the HQ and combat/weapons medium tank companies) must the same type. There are no extraneous listed units and the exclusion of the light tank company functions to exclude the light tanks from the universe of restricted units.

In any case, I agree that we should wait and hear from BF for a definitive answer.

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Frogdog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:21 pm

sovietpride wrote:I have also double checked the Brazilian list from Ireland, if this one is the latest PDF of the list (http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=209) then the only diference with the team Ireland list is on the INTELLIGENCE & RECON PLATOON which has a new format (50 cal recon jeep plus three recon jeeps, no infantry) and cost 105 points instead of 65 points.

The problem is that this PDF has wrong points on this unit since it should cost actually 65 points (like other equivalent CT American unit)... so my propossal is either leave the submitted list as it currently is or put a note on easy army pointing out the new format of the unit but not changing the list neither the points.

What those the Irish captain think about the issue?


Ok, I've tried to remain out of this thread long enough and let nature take it's course. But as I've been specifically requested to reply, I will do so.

I'm playing the Brazilian list. It's a list I created long ago (back in the days of Easy Army) and it just so happened to be the same points total as the ETC this year. As has been noted on here several times, Easy Army didn't throw up any error with regards to the points costing of the Recce Jeep platoon. But yes, when it was brought to my attention recently, the PDF does indeed have a different points listing to what Easy Army does. That's my fault entirely. I made the assumption that Easy Army was correct when I first created the list (possibly a few years ago).

There is another problem with the list however. And this may be where my own honesty gets me into trouble. But what the hell! :( Easy Army only had two compulsory infantry platoons. I see now, having pored over the PDF in fine detail the last couple of days, that the PDF requires three!!! So another mistake, because of my assumption of Easy Army being correct a few years ago. This is something that no one on this forum has spotted up to now.

So what to do? I have a proposal, which you all can discuss the merits of. If I was to change my list, making minimal changes and trying to keep it as similar to that which I submitted last week, and most importantly making it legal, I would swop out the Recce Jeep (65 points, mistakenly, should be 105 points) for a Recce Cavalry platoon (70 points), take all transports from all gun and artillery platoons (3 x 5 points), and change the two max infantry platoons (2 x 140 points) for three short infantry platoons (3 x 100 points). That makes the list legal and ties it in with the PDF. The only consequence this has is that it brings the list up from 10 platoons to 11 platoons. Alternatively, and I've no problems doing this either, I could play the illegal list that I submitted, as has been suggested by Sovietpride above. If anyone sees that as unfairly benefiting me or my team, I've no problem with changing my list as per my first suggestion either. I'm totally fine with either route.

I hope that you will believe that my intention was never to submit an illegal list knowingly. This was an error of assumption that an Easy Army list that I created a long time ago was correct. Apologies for the hassle this has caused the ETC community.

PS. Jonny and all the Northern Ireland guys - sorry also for playing an illegal list at your recent tournaments.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:41 pm

Ullick I have known you many years now and know there was nothing intentional. You proposal is a good one.

You maybe a Munster fan but I won't hold that against you ;)

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Frogdog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:50 pm

Thanks Steve, appreciate it.

And I'll leave the last comment slide! :wink:
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:52 pm

Boy your army rules are almost if not more complicated than 7th ed 40k.

In anyway, it seems like these issues won't be handled within the next 24 hours, so i am planning to extend the list checking deadline until monday night.

This will give time for a BF answer, or i can get the refs together and get some rulings and get this done. Opinions?
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Frogdog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:53 pm

Sounds reasonable pizzaguardian.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:02 pm

I sort of gave you guys 2 options, be more clear please?
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Frogdog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:04 pm

Personally, extend time to Monday night for BF to give an answer and for other list issues to be corrected.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Trick08 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:48 pm

pizzaguardian wrote:Boy your army rules are almost if not more complicated than 7th ed 40k.

In anyway, it seems like these issues won't be handled within the next 24 hours, so i am planning to extend the list checking deadline until monday night.

This will give time for a BF answer, or i can get the refs together and get some rulings and get this done. Opinions?

Timeframe is good thanks PG.

I doubt BF will answer...V3 is a dead stick for them now...but you never know I guess.

I reakon just call in the refs and get them to make a call.

Team Australia did submit a Forward Detachment using the rule of not mixing tank in the Tankovy companies as that is what the rule is. I can see how it can be misinterpreted and as I said earlier teams should just be allowed to fix their list with no penalty...but fix it they should...maybe everyone who has an illegal list just adopts our list...its kick-ass nasty...and its legal...lol:-)

Trick

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby sovietpride » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:24 pm

Hi Frogdog, Didnt realised that you need three infantry platoons also... y think your propossed list with cavalry recon an three short platoons would be fine.

Pizzaguardian, We need at least until monday to solve/ check list and list correntions.
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:40 pm

Well ask and ya shall receive.

LIST CORRECTION HAS BEEN EXTENDED UNTIL AUGUST 10TH MONDAY 23:59 CEST

But after i really have to send the lists to printing, there is a queue for that you know :)
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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Trick08 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:38 pm

pizzaguardian wrote:Well ask and ya shall receive.

LIST CORRECTION HAS BEEN EXTENDED UNTIL AUGUST 10TH MONDAY 23:59 CEST

But after i really have to send the lists to printing, there is a queue for that you know :)

Fair call matie and thanks for helping us out.

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Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby TheTonyDavis » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:18 am

Our team's response to the issues with our list:

I have forwarded the email I received from Phil Yates, the rules creator from BF, to pizzaguardian and provided it below. In it Phil responded to my email also seen below where I also attached my original list submitted last week. You can see that he says the list is legal based on the lists rules as they are written but that style of list wasn't intended to be legal as it isn't historically accurate. As a team we have decided to let the ETC chairmen or referees decide which we should use as Phil mentions in his email hashing it out with our opponent. I have attached two versions of the list provided to pizzaguardian and highlighted below. The first option A is our original submission and the second is an altered list done in the way the briefing was intended to be used making as minimal changes as possible per the rules pack. It is our team's preference to use the original list submitted because it is the one Chris has been practicing with for a few months now but will agree to whatever decision is made in the interest of good sportsmanship.

Due to the fact that the list we submitted last week is technically legal we feel, and hope everyone agrees, that no penalty should be levied upon us no matter which list is decided we use.

The emails which can be provided to anyone including a screen shot showing they are not altered in anyway by me:

From: Phil Yates <phil.yates@battlefront.co.nz>
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 6:50 PM
To: 'Tony Davis'; 'John Matthews'
Subject: RE: List legality questions

Hi Tony,

The force would appear to conform to the technicalities of the rule requiring a single type of tank on page 105. On the other hand, it does skirt the intention of the rule that the Combat and Weapons Company tanks are from the same historical battalion, so equipped with the same type of tank.

A quick glance at Charles C Sharp’s Soviet orders of battle doesn’t show any brigades with mixed Sherman and Lee battalions or brigades, so you can’t get any moral support from the historical side.

That really leaves it as a matter between you and your opponent to hash out.

Cheers

Phil


From: Tony Davis [mailto:tonyma845@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 July 2017 5:07 AM
To: Phil Yates <phil.yates@battlefront.co.nz>; John Matthews <john.matthews@battlefront.co.nz>
Subject: List legallity questions

Hello Gentlemen,

We are hoping for clarification on a lists design rules. I have attached the list and am wondering if it is a legal list or not. The sticking point seems to be the inclusion of both Shermans in the Combat Company and Lees in the Weapons company. I would greatly appreciate your response at the earliest convenience!

Thank you and have a nice day,

Tony Davis


List option A: the same list already submitted.

List option B: remove the 9 Lee Tankovy Company for a 7 Sherman Inomarochnikiy Tankovy Company.

Thank you for your time and sorry for any inconvenience this has cause.
Last edited by TheTonyDavis on Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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