ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Latest news and chat from the European Flames Of War Team Championship.

Moderators: ETC moderators, Keepers of the Peace

TheTonyDavis
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:26 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby TheTonyDavis » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:46 am

Trick08 wrote:Hi All

Team Australia can concluded its list checking with the following outcomes

The following teams are good:

Austria, Australia, Denmark, England, Finland, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Scotland, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Switzerland and United Nations

Canada - needs extra half tracks in the Towed TD unit as you must have 1 x 1/2 track per gun, points cost would be affected in towed td

France - can't take Canadian 25pdrs I. Armoured rifle company

Ireland - forward detachment has mixed tanks
Ireland- Brazil list fix happening, correction posted

Russia - forward detachment set has mixed tanks

United States - forward detachment has mixed tanks...fix happening, correction posted

Wales - contacted already, Mark has already posted a correction the arty wrong selection box was chosen for arty in his Churchill list.

Regards

Team Australia


Fix isn't needed and isn't decided if we have to do it yet except for a few of our competitors that seem to have a second agenda brewing ;) Seems odd to be setting a precedent that a legal list needs replaced because some thought it might be illegal.
FOW Team USA 2014
FOW Team USA 2015 (champions)
FOW Team USA 2016 (captain)

Trick08
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Trick08 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:30 am

TheTonyDavis wrote:
Trick08 wrote:Hi All

Fix isn't needed and isn't decided if we have to do it yet except for a few of our competitors that seem to have a second agenda brewing ;) Seems odd to be setting a precedent that a legal list needs replaced because some thought it might be illegal.


Well I think ultimately that will be for the refs to call but no argument from me as I was deeply moved by team USA's desire to simply fix the issue by coming up with a simple and elegant solution...

Trick

Roger
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:57 am
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Contact:

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Roger » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:03 am

Sent the correction yesterday to the Welsh Churchill company.

( Purely cosmetic of title of 25pdr unit from 15th Division to Corps)

Had response back that they might not bother changing it as has zero effect.
Team England 2012
Team Wales Captain 2014
Team Wales Captain 2015
Team Wales Captain 2016
Team Wales Captain 2017
Team Wales Coach 2018

redvark
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:48 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby redvark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:34 am

Trick08 wrote:
TheMarko wrote:Whatever is decided will be applied to everyone - who makes the final decision will be established soon.

The fact is that I like (seems like majority does as well) the proposed lists modification. All affected parties might want to start thinking about outsourcing few Shermans for the ETC. Since this is a tricky situation I would also consider allowing some degree of proxy-ing for these units. Not in terms of different models, only as different paint job or even wrong paint scheme, as long as it is VERY OBVIOUS which platoon the tanks belong to (for example US Shermans in Russian lists are very obvious to me if they are part of only one and the same platoon). This would be only to allow teams to make some ad-hoc Sherman platoons because although the lists are legal, they appear to be heavily in the grey zone and might need to be adjusted for the sake of sportsmanship this close to the tournament.
This, as before, is far from official ruling, only a suggestion.

Cheers,
Marko

+1 Team Australia can lend anyone who needs tank tanks...we have an epic amount...just let us know what we need to bring.

Trick


Can also offer to bring some Shermans over to help out.

At the end of the day it's a game of toy soldiers right (he says with his new chilled, grown up hat on !)
Team Scotland 2015
Team Scotland 2016
Team Scotland 2017
Team Scotland 2018 - Captain

stevec
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:48 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:43 am

So you don't mind if I bring 20 challengers? ;)

It is but the lists and rules are there for a reason.

User avatar
Frogdog
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Frogdog » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:12 am

Just so everyone is aware, we're currently fixing our Soviet Mech to make as few changes as possible to make it legal. It will be submitted with the Brazilian list, as discussed previously, before the new deadline.
Team Ireland FoW 2012 - 2017
Captain 2017

Warheads Blog
Warheads Podcasts

redvark
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:48 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby redvark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:13 am

Well given you're using a Panther list I might object a wee bit :-)
Team Scotland 2015
Team Scotland 2016
Team Scotland 2017
Team Scotland 2018 - Captain

User avatar
Angelfred
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:45 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Angelfred » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:10 am

@Trick : our US Armored Rifle Company is legit.
It comes from Road to Rome, which does grant them access to 25pdr battery as Allies.
Those 25pdr can be 1st Army or, as it is the case for us, Canadians.

Don't have the book under the eyes, we will check ASAP.

Apologies if we are wrong.

Fred
Team France ETC FoW 2012/2013/2014/2015/2017

Arkon
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:24 pm

I think you are right Fred
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2012 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2013 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2014 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2015 Player and Spokesperson
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2017 Player and Spokesperson

User avatar
Angelfred
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:45 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Angelfred » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:33 pm

Guys, we checked again and we believe we are right.
Please tell us if it's not the case and explain as currently we think everything is OK.

Many thanks in advance

Fred
Team France ETC FoW 2012/2013/2014/2015/2017

graham
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby graham » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:35 pm

See pages 196 (for the US mech list) and 95 (for British and Commonwealth artillery to support it) of Road to Rome.

I can see no restrictions that would make the French list illegal.
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

Roger
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:57 am
Pick number 4 to enter: 1
Contact:

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Roger » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Hmmm but if you read what it actually says in the book ( for which symbol can be selected from) rather than considering Canadians as Commonwealth I can see why Scott suggested it.
Team England 2012
Team Wales Captain 2014
Team Wales Captain 2015
Team Wales Captain 2016
Team Wales Captain 2017
Team Wales Coach 2018

stevec
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:48 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby stevec » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:54 pm

The Sybol is eugth army so unfortunately it can only be from that formation so it's 8th army. Unfortunately there has been no update and this is it from the book. So Seb has 10 points to spend elsewhere. Maybe more .50" cals?

graham
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby graham » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:12 pm

Damn it. How the hell did I miss that? Yellow cross on a white field. Yep, no help from the Québecois for the French.
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

User avatar
Angelfred
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:45 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Angelfred » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:31 pm

We believe it is legit : you have access to Commonwealth platoon in this list, platoon that doesn't get the "8th Army" symbol on them.
We read it as every "British" platoon in the list need to have the same symbol.

Read again the Armored Rifle Company text regarding British platoons.
The 08th Army symbol is here to show you you can take non US platoons.

Again, we believe we are in your right.

If you feel we aren't, we will change ; we don't negotiate with illegal.
If it's not legal,we will change immediately with 08th Army and 2 0.5 cal on both infantry platoons (same points).
Team France ETC FoW 2012/2013/2014/2015/2017

Chrisj5154
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:54 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Chrisj5154 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Ok,

Can someone give me a definitive answer. It's my PO that's causing all the confusion and consternation. Do I need to pack Shermans or Lees? If we don't have a definitive answer, do we have a plan whereby one can be achieved? Should I just bring both and let my opponent choose before each mission? Help a brother out....

Chris Jackson

Trick08
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Trick08 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:28 am

Chrisj5154 wrote:Ok,

Can someone give me a definitive answer. It's my PO that's causing all the confusion and consternation. Do I need to pack Shermans or Lees? If we don't have a definitive answer, do we have a plan whereby one can be achieved? Should I just bring both and let my opponent choose before each mission? Help a brother out....

Chris Jackson

We have until the 12th so maybe we need the refs to get together and make a call on the items that have been raised and not yet resolved. Who are the Refs?

Trick

sovietpride
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:50 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby sovietpride » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:51 am

I really dont think «the refs» are conscious of the issue at hand.

As always, the lack of a clear TO hampers the ETC.

You could make a quick captain vote in a separate thread to settle the issue.
«Team Spain FoW 2014 Captain».
«Team Spain FoW 2015 Captain».
«Team Spain FoW 2017 Captain».

graham
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby graham » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:17 am

Angelfred wrote:We believe it is legit : you have access to Commonwealth platoon in this list, platoon that doesn't get the "8th Army" symbol on them.
We read it as every "British" platoon in the list need to have the same symbol.

Read again the Armored Rifle Company text regarding British platoons.
The 08th Army symbol is here to show you you can take non US platoons.

Again, we believe we are in your right.

If you feel we aren't, we will change ; we don't negotiate with illegal.
If it's not legal,we will change immediately with 08th Army and 2 0.5 cal on both infantry platoons (same points).

Fred,

I understand your argument. You believe that the wording of the "Allied Platoons" box on page 196 of Road to Rome refers generically to British and Commonwealth and just happens to use the 8th Army symbol by coincidence.

As a check, I looked at some other lists and it is apparent that the symbol is important. Look at the dismounted cav recon on page 182 - both the text box and the support platoons. For example this list can have a rifle support platoon that is either 8th Army or New Zealand. It can have an armoured platoon but that must be New Zealand.

I believe this shows that the 8th Army symbol in your list does indeed limit your support to 8th Army options.

regards,
Graham
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

Trick08
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Trick08 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:41 am

graham wrote:
Angelfred wrote:We believe it is legit : you have access to Commonwealth platoon in this list, platoon that doesn't get the "8th Army" symbol on them.
We read it as every "British" platoon in the list need to have the same symbol.

Read again the Armored Rifle Company text regarding British platoons.
The 08th Army symbol is here to show you you can take non US platoons.

Again, we believe we are in your right.

If you feel we aren't, we will change ; we don't negotiate with illegal.
If it's not legal,we will change immediately with 08th Army and 2 0.5 cal on both infantry platoons (same points).

Fred,

I understand your argument. You believe that the wording of the "Allied Platoons" box on page 196 of Road to Rome refers generically to British and Commonwealth and just happens to use the 8th Army symbol by coincidence.

As a check, I looked at some other lists and it is apparent that the symbol is important. Look at the dismounted cav recon on page 182 - both the text box and the support platoons. For example this list can have a rifle support platoon that is either 8th Army or New Zealand. It can have an armoured platoon but that must be New Zealand.

I believe this shows that the 8th Army symbol in your list does indeed limit your support to 8th Army options.

regards,
Graham

Correct and very well articulated:-)

Trick

pizzaguardian
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:51 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:42 am

It has been decided by refs and chairmen; about the soviet mechanised list.

Updating the Russia and USA, soviet mechanised lists with their offered alternatives. There will be no penalty applied to the teams since this issue is obviously not totally one sided either way. ( Which was the third team?, Anyway they have to change their list in a reasonable way as well)

And the wales british tank list. To them there is a beer fine, just cause; and also i feel like i should give out beerfines at this point.
2018 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen
2017 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen - ESC 40K Referee - WTC Head Judge
2016 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - WTC Head Judge
2015 WTC Merc

graham
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby graham » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:27 am

Trick - looking at your list below, I would add the Finns and delete the Canadians.

In a post on 5 July, Oskariho asked if Team Finland could to swap their Valentine IIs for Valentine VIIIs in the Peredovoye Otryad list. There is no point difference. There was one positive reply and no-one objected.

I've looked at the Canadian towed tank destroyer list and they do have one half-track per gun. (Perhaps you mis-read the 3 bazooka teams?)
Trick08 wrote:Hi All

Team Australia can concluded its list checking with the following outcomes

The following teams are good:

Austria, Australia, Denmark, England, Finland, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Scotland, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Switzerland and United Nations

Canada - needs extra half tracks in the Towed TD unit as you must have 1 x 1/2 track per gun, points cost would be affected in towed td

Finland - swap Valentine IIs for Valentine VIIIs in the forward detachment list

France - can't take Canadian 25pdrs I. Armoured rifle company

Ireland - forward detachment has mixed tanks
Ireland- Brazil list fix happening, correction posted

Russia - forward detachment set has mixed tanks

United States - forward detachment has mixed tanks...fix happening, correction posted

Wales - contacted already, Mark has already posted a correction the arty wrong selection box was chosen for arty in his Churchill list.

Regards

Team Australia
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

Arkon
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:21 pm

But to be honest, changing AT 7 to AT 10 after lists have been published seems a major change to me. And there is no "need" to do so?
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2012 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2013 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2014 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2015 Player and Spokesperson
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2017 Player and Spokesperson

Oskariho
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:03 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Oskariho » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Arkon wrote:But to be honest, changing AT 7 to AT 10 after lists have been published seems a major change to me. And there is no "need" to do so?


Indeed, there isn't a need technically. It was purely a mistake I made, though, since the player actually sent me the list containing the AT 10 Valentines. His list was missing his name (and had 10 points to spare), so I remade it and accidentally didn't tick the change them to Valentine VIIIs (I can invite anyone who really doubts to our teams facebook group to prove it).

That said, if there are to be penalties (I'm still a bit unclear on that), all teams should be treated equally so we should also receive one.
ETC FOW Team Finland Player 2012-2015
ETC FOW Team Finland Captain 2017

Arkon
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Arkon » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:34 pm

Was just wondering, I am not a penalty hunter
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2012 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2013 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2014 Player
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2015 Player and Spokesperson
Team Greece FoW - ETC 2017 Player and Spokesperson

DaveM
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:32 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby DaveM » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:57 pm

Team Austria are still missing player names from their submitted lists although the file name does include it. Not a biggie and certainly shouldn't be penalised but should still be corrected for completeness IMO.
FOW ETC New Zealand Team Captain 2018
FOW ETC New Zealand Team 2017
FOW ETC New Zealand Team Captain 2016
FOW ETC New Zealand Team Captain 2015
FOW ETC Team England 2013

Oskariho
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:03 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby Oskariho » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:10 pm

Arkon wrote:Was just wondering, I am not a penalty hunter


No worries didn't think you were one.

But my point still stands. All teams should be treated equally, so if someone gets a penalty others who made mistakes(including us) should get one too.
ETC FOW Team Finland Player 2012-2015
ETC FOW Team Finland Captain 2017

pizzaguardian
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:51 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:26 pm

Ok guys, can you give me an accurate list of

Which lists are inaccurate/problematic at the moment in the drive folder?

I might have missed updates on some, so lets correct them.
2018 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen
2017 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen - ESC 40K Referee - WTC Head Judge
2016 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - WTC Head Judge
2015 WTC Merc

graham
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:16 am
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby graham » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Pizza Guardian - I would suggest that you work from the list posted by Trick and amended by me a few hours ago. (Look a few posts earlier in this thread.)
Graham
Team England 2014 - 2017
England Captain 2018

pizzaguardian
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:51 pm
Anti-Spam Filter: No
Pick number 4 to enter: 4

Re: ETC FoW 2017 Lists

Postby pizzaguardian » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:31 pm

Austria, Australia, Denmark, England, Finland, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Scotland, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Switzerland and United Nations
Canada - needs extra half tracks in the Towed TD unit as you must have 1 x 1/2 track per gun, points cost would be affected in towed td

Finland - swap Valentine IIs for Valentine VIIIs in the forward detachment list

France - can't take Canadian 25pdrs I. Armoured rifle company

Ireland - forward detachment has mixed tanks
Ireland- Brazil list fix happening, correction posted
Russia - forward detachment set has mixed tanks

United States - forward detachment has mixed tanks...fix happening, correction posted


Wales - contacted already, Mark has already posted a correction the arty wrong selection box was chosen for arty in his Churchill list.


Yeah, but i can't personally know if the corrections happened the correct way or not, (not familiar with fow armies)
2018 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen
2017 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - ETC Chairmen - ESC 40K Referee - WTC Head Judge
2016 ETC 40K Turkey Captain - WTC Head Judge
2015 WTC Merc


Return to “FOW - European Team Championships”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest