If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

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If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

Postby GoldandGold » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:02 pm

During the summer of 2016 I rekindled my interest for warhammer, I had been playing warhammer pc games and been reading warhammer novels.

This is when I found out about the end time and the age of Sigmar.

If I ever acquire enough money to buy Warhammer this is how I would change Warhammer Fantasy.

My changes are to the warhammer backstory / fluff. Which would to some extent bleed over to the tabletop warhammer fantasy and other warhammer fantasy things.

Many of my changes are to set the backstory closer to how earlier warhammer version were described such as the 4th - 5th editions.

I was going to post an earlier version of this warhammer.org.uk as well, but just a few days after I got around to posting it, they had disabled the ability to register new accounts, just my luck :P

But now that it is open again I can post my thoughts so far on Warhammer Fantasy. My version keeps growing as time passes by, who knows maybe in a few years or less, it will be over 100 pages long.

Anyway tell me what you think :)

Each paragraph is stand alone and can be removed or changed as seen fit, nothing is written in stone.

The World

I would bring back to the old warhammer fantasy world. That does not mean that age of Sigmar would be thrown out. Just as there is warhammer 40k and warhammer age of Sigmar, there would be warhammer fantasy in addition to that.

Unlike GW who constantly made everything darker and more grim because it is ”cool”, I want to install a bit more light and hope. Because I understand that you can not only have darkness and corruption with more corruption and darkness there needs to be light, there needs to be hope.

There would be less of the corruption and oppression than is currently described in the warhammer universe in the lands of men, because people who oppress others would surely be tempted by chaos and many of those who are oppressed would turn to chaos to gain power as to strike down their oppressors. That does not mean there would be no evil, just an amount less.


Currently people worship different gods depending on the situation they are in, I would make it clear that this is perfectly fine. For example when a soldier fights he might pray to Sigmar or Ulric, but when the soldier gambles he might pray to Randal.

Religion plays a big part in the warhammer world. Since there are gods almost everyone is religious to some part and some form different type of “religious communities”.

Maybe there would be some type of connection with how many worshipers a god has and how “powerful” it is or its followers. Something like God X has Y amount of worshipers therefore the power of the god is Z with modifications of how much each worshiper worships how often and so on.

More people than is currently described in the warhammer literature join different religious orders. There are many different reasons why people join religious orders. Sometimes it is because they have no land or money and no where else left to go. Other times it is because they have a very strong connection to that god and feel that they must do so. There would be many different reasons why people join.

People who are devout and pray to their god/s receive respite from the problems of the world, the world does not feel as hopeless and ones life does not feel as pointless, in addition to that they gain a bit of magical power (very small bit for most, like for example having ones crops grow a bit better than average, or not getting as sick as the average person does.) One can drink away their problems, or pray away them.

In a world where there are gods, people do not want to provoke them so even witch hunters would not be as callous in accusing someone in the clergy only to have the accused be innocent. In addition to avoiding accusing people in power like so many witch hunters seem to do. So joining a religion grants a person a measure of protection from persecution.

All the old world human deities would have the same name in all the old world nations.

One does not need to follow all the strictures of a god to get a blessing from that god, but of course the more you follow them the stronger the blessing will be. One can be a follower of a god and not agree completely with each and every stricture of that god. (As many warhammer novels describe any follower or even “priests”.) One must of course agree with the general principals, but not every single detail. However if one goes by many warhammer novels, one does not even have to do that, and still have access to some of the gods power, but it becomes more difficult to cast those spells.

Someone who draws magical divine power from a god, will find it easier to do so, the more devout he is, the more time he spends in his god service, the more he prays to the god, the more in line he is with his gods teachings and strictures and of course the more naturally gifted he is with divine magic.

Some people pray to “the family” Verena, Shallya, Myrmidia and Morr.

Almost all temples to all of the standard human religions would sell items to people if they meet the religions criteria for such transactions and have enough money.

When it comes to the human gods for most of the clergy it would not be as described on page 179 in the tome of salvation for the 2nd edition of warhammer fantasy roleplay. One must not become a priest one can stay as an initiate or some other rank. Just because one does not become a priest does not therefore mean that one has to be kicked out. There would be many different “career” opportunities inside the different religions such as guard, cook, librarian etc etc etc. You can be a layman and still receive training and teaching of that religion, it is not mutually exclusive.

Life as an human initiate would not be as hard and difficult, as described on page 179 in the tome of salvation for the 2nd edition of warhammer fantasy roleplay. in most if not all temples of the standard non evil gods. Yes life CAN be hard in a religious order, but the order and the god wants as many members as possible if they have the correct alignment and spirit.

When it comes to a human becoming a priest it would usually take several years of service to the god, at least usually 10 if not 20 before one can become a priest.

Almost all if not all of the human gods allow their members to go out and spread the word of their god when the member feels ready to do so, but usually some type of minimum training of maybe 5 years is required before one can do so.

Adventuring or signing up with the military is allowed by most if not all the human religions as long as one spreads the word of the god, even being a traveling merchant or almost any type of profession is allowed so that one helps to spread the word of ones god and possibly even help in the fight against the ruinous powers. Being in one place ones whole life is not for everyone, even very spiritual people need a change of environment now and again. One does not need to leave the clergy or resign from the religion when one chooses some type of profession.

One does not need to worship one single god all the time one can worship different gods during different occasions. Similarly one can study as an imitate at one religion for a few years then at another for a few years and so on. When it comes to being a priest one is almost always only a priest to one god even if one has been an initiate of many. One can however be a priest of one god give up ones priesthood, leave and then become a priest of another god but that is rare.

A new merchant god, female for whom commerce was the most important thing, except trading in life including slavery our souls. She would not accept the corruption and back dealings that Haendryk does. For her trades would be official and no back dealing or trickery.

Albaluea, the god of farming would change name and would be a male god.

The Farming God

A farming god would be the number one worshiped god of all humans in the old world including the Empire, Sigmar would be worshiped by the nobility in the Empire, but for the common man the farming god would be the predominant deity.

The farming gods priests would bless the land and crops giving many more harvests per year, possibly five in comparison to one. Life (nature) magic wizards can do the same, however one needs to make sure they also ”heal” the soil so that one doesn’t get soil depletion, ”healing” soil is more magically difficult than ”speed growing” crops.

The farming god is relatively ”new” something like maybe a few hundred years since the first peasants began worshiping him and first priests appeared or possibly less and maybe a few decades ago was when he became ”mainstream” and surpassed all other human deities as the nr 1 human god. And with him came the potato, a revolutionary crop which increased food supply several times and most importantly of course booze, but only the people of Kislev know how to make booze from potatoes and possibly some Norsca farmers too.

(In the real worlds history the potato changed everything because not only does it yield more food per planted square yard than grain, it also makes more potent alcohol, so in the real world a farmer needed to use more of his crops to get completely blastered but with potatoes he could get blastered on far less crops thereby allowing his wife and children more food so that they grew healthier and survived longer and in greater numbers. This is how the Nordic countries advanced.)

The Farmers of Kislev learned about the Potato before the Farming god was known, perhaps 50 years. And the people learned to make Vodka long before the farming god came. Maybe 300 years before the first farming god priests were beginning to spread the word of the farming god.

The farming god also helped with the legume plant. Plants need nitrogen to grow, but most plants can't extract nitrogen from the air, they have to get it from the soil. If you grow plants that extract nitrogen from soil over and over again, the soil becomes depleted. Legumes bacteria in the plants roots can extract nitrogen from the air, and they deposit some of what they make into the soil around them. So by alternating legumes with other plants, you can replenish the nitrogen in the soil. In modern “real world” farming, ammonia-based fertilizers are often used to replenish nitrogen in the soil instead.

A New Female Merchant God

The new female merchant god would have temples that operate like banks, anyone could deposit money and withdraw money, it would be safe and guaranteed, the ownership would be checked with acolytes/priests sensing the aura of a person. This sensing would work for almost everyone without problems except magical users both arcane and divine who’s aura would grow/change, however skilled priests would be able to identify the aura. There would be almost no theft or alteration of records within the ”church” and those few who did usually did so because they had turned to chaos. With enough spells and prayers the real numbers can be recovered.

When depositing or withdrawing money from the merchant gods temple, the owner has a small ledger book where the acolyte / priests writes down the transaction. These ledger books are only formalities since the temple magically records the numbers. These records are then, somehow I don't know the details yet, transferred to other temples so a person can withdraw their money anywhere they like and deposit in any temple and it all adds up.

The merchant god does not offer magical transfer services between different people, so if a person wants to give money to another person, the money has to physically be transported. And one can not say I wish to deposit X amount into Y persons account. Each account is unique and can only be accessed by the owner.

The merchant gods temples would usually have marketplaces / squares, where traders, sellers and merchants could set up stands and sell their goods. Smaller sections would be free and larger ones would be charged a ”reasonable” rate. Sometimes around these squares shops will be established and that is sometimes how a merchant district is created.

The merchant gods priests and acolytes also goes after people who shave, mill or in other ways damage coins with the purpose of fraudulent behavior.

Just as Haendryk, the temples of this merchant god would fund adventure quests and expeditions in exchange for a % of the profits and if the adventures don't pay the temple would come after them. These expedition could however not be evil in intent such as enslaving a village.

The temple also sells blessings and magical items to whoever can pay given they are not chaos touched, undead, some types of evil, or in some way wanted by the temple.

The new female merchant gods temple would also give out loans to people the priests would produce a profit and of course meet the temple criteria of not being chaos touched. For example a farmer or smith who wants to expand but needs money for it.


Affariche, Haendryk, Kalita, Mercopio, O Prospero who are all merchant gods would be merged into one god, Haendryk, who would be like he is now a half corruptish merchant god who looks legit but is for back dealing and double dealing. However slavery, selling body parts, selling of souls, selling necromancy or chaos items would not be allowed but maybe dark magic items that are not necromancy or chaos would be allowed.

From Haendryk priests and temples one can buy and sell almost anything, except slaves, body parts, chaos and necromancy items, and very few, if any, questions would be asked.

All gods can give the gift of magic, but it is rare, usually it is Verena who does so but all gods can. To have Haendryk bestow the gift of magic one, like for all gods, can do X amount of deeds, or unlike many of the other gods one can simply present enough money. However like all the human gods the gift of magic will not be bestowed on anyone who would be susceptible of the ruinous powers or who would become a necromancer. Also even Haendryk, irregardless of amount of money, will not bestow the gift of magic on anyone who would use it to oppress people. Because oppression often leads to chaos.

Out of those who are granted the gift of magic by Haendryk most are bestowed the ability to use gold magic.


Priests and acolytes of Verena would form a ”police force” , Constables of Verena, when allowed, seldom in the Empire with its corruption, Bretonnia, Kislev Marienburg and the rest of the old world to varying degrees would also have these police forces.

All gods can give anyone the gift of magic, but usually it is to Verena people turn if they want to become a wizard but were not born as one. Usually one needs to do many things, possibly many decades of service to be granted the gift of magic, it is possible but in no ways guaranteed. Verena and the other gods would only grant powers to people who are not evil, thereby helping in the war against chaos.

The clergy of Verena were one of the first to adopt “modern” weapons so crossbows and gunpowder weapons can be seen by the clergy. These weapons are often of good quality and sometimes even made by the clergy themselves.

It could be that before any schools of magic were developed or even up until the 8 colleges of magic were developed and even past that, that many people who had a gift of magic would join or be sent to temples of Verena. These arcane magically gifted individuals would then over the years through prayer and study learn some divine spells of Verena like any other initiate and or priest of Verena, however they would also learn some arcane magic spells which matched what type of wind they were attuned to. The numerical amount of arcane magic spells that these individuals would gain insight of would be low, but the spells they learned would be “correct” as in how to cast such a spell without risking chaos corruption. Basically you have Verena showing people who pray to her how to correctly cast those spells. That would also mean that from a military perspective clergy of Verena were more “powerful” before the establishment of organized magic. However many of those who are gifted in arcane magic do worship Verena so the total amount of “military power” Verena worshipers as whole might increase because the, now wizards, posses more “military power” than they would have if they had been only in the clergy.

Possibly after the creation of the colleges of magic or even when some type of magical schools were created and the knowledge about magic grew. If a person has the gift of magic then they can develop their skills and receive guidance at a temple of Verena. What can be learned at a temple is mostly but not always limited to basic things, like how to correctly draw on the winds of magic, however with time one can learn more and more things, but the progression would most often not be as fast as in a college of magic. If one follows the instructions carefully and prays to Verena to receive guidance and follows ever dream or insight one gets, then it is very safe to practice magic learned this way, much more safe than if one were to experiment on ones own. A magically gifted person would pray and meditate to Verna and receive some insight and the priests would teach what they know and if possible guide the magical user and show them how to do the basic things.

Maybe some of the clergy who received such insights would write down how to cast that spell, however because of possibly many reasons no one figured out to collect and organize these texts. And that no one figured out to start teaching specific types of spells to specific type of magically attuned individuals.

Maybe it is one or several of the individuals who received such insights from Verena, that this person/s then created the first elementalist school, possibly fire, and wind and water. Each of the individuals had received knowledge how to cast a few fire spells water and wind spells respectively and from that they created a school of fire a school of water a school of wind and from that the elementalists schools grew. So it was from learning, correctly, how to cast a few arcane spells at possibly a beginner level that some individuals then made a false assumption that that is how magic is divided, into elements.

If a person had a gift of magic and a corresponding school was not available for that type of magic then usually to avoid corruption or insanity a person would join the clergy of Verena.

Any mage who has studied any amount of time can meditate and pray to Verena and with time, if that person has an alignment that Verna does not object to, the mage would learn how to cast a spell or understanding something they had trouble learning or understanding on their own or at any type of school. Verena grants this type of insight and knowledge to any person, with a non objectionable alignment, who has any type of “problem”.

Temples of Verena will purchase any book and will pay a “fair” price for the book. Temples of Verena also sell books. People who are “into” books usually buy and sell them at Temples of Verena. Temples of Verena may buy books stolen from “evil” individuals or organizations depending on the circumstance, otherwise if it is discovered that the book is stolen the temple will try to return it. For example if a person steals some books from a vampire or necromancer and then sells those books to the temple of Verena, then the temple would view such a thing as a good thing or at the very least as neutral and the temple would buy the book even thought the act of stealing is bad, in such a case it would be considered good or neutral and the book needs to get out of improper hands and then there is the preservation of books or destruction of very dangerous books.

The order of the everlasting light does not have a curse on them that makes their weapons and armor break at the most inopportune times, the order has no curse at all. Any religious individual if they had a curse on them could with enough praying and doing their gods work remove that curse, and no religious group can be cursed in such a manner for any lengthy period of time especially when members change or die off.

Temples of Verena want to save knowledge yes, but books that are chaos infused are an exception to this rule because yes a book of chaos can be used to “study” and see how the chaos magic works and such, study as in looking at how the magic emanating from the book works, however such a book in a by itself can possibly corrupt things around it and or a reader, so to prevent that, such a book may be destroyed. Also a chaos book would become the target of a chaos attack a worshiper or several wishing to gain more power and would open up the temple to an attack that may not have happened otherwise. Also of course it is far better to destroy a chaos book then allow it to fall into a chaos worshipers hands. The same applies for scripts tomes scrolls etc of chaos. The same to some extent also applies to necromancy and possibly even books by worshipers of evil goods such as Khaine.

This is not to be confused with how to fight chaos or the undead, discussion weakness and strengths of the different chaos creatures is allowed however reading chaos books and texts or touching objects of chaos is a completely different matter.


Shallya would have both male and female priests, there would be more female acolytes with lower level of power than men, and more female clergy overall however at the upper levels of divine magical power it would be equal. So more females overall in the organization, more females with low amount of power, then as the power of each individual increases so does the amount of men , and equal amount at the top tier of power.

Temples of Shallya are where people go to learn about healing and medicine, anyone who wants to learn about treating sick people and curing people with non magical aid, studies in a temple of Shallya. Basically temples of Shallyas are “medical schools” in the warhammer setting, plus of course divine magic for those who can wield it.

People who have an aptitude for light or life magic can receive arcane magical training in how to heal at temples of Shallya, how to draw upon the winds of magic and how to protect oneself from chaos when casting spells and drawing magical power. but the progression would most often not be as fast as in a college of magic.

Priests of Shallya do not weep in their sleep.

Priests of Shallya have the most potent healing spells of all the old world gods, other gods may have healing spells but Shallyas healing spells are stronger and better.

The clergy of Shallya are all very healthy and they do not even have morning breath.

All followers of Shallya may use violence in self defense or in the defense of another.

All followers of Shallya may actively attack any follower of the ruinous power, or any enemy of humanity such as greenskins, dark elves etc.

Followers of Shallya do sometimes go with adventures to learn from direct experiences how to treat and heal different type of ailments that may not often occur in a “civilized” setting.


Sigmar priest are split something like 70/30 or 80/20 between male and female priests.

Priest of Sigmar may wear helmets which should not cover the face. Could be a big back story how the

priests of Sigmar reached this decision. (Not sure about this one)

Male Priests of Sigmar do not have to be bald (Not sure about this one)


No clergy or any warriors of Morr be they Templars, Initiates and Grand Masters of Morr, take vows of silence, and they do not cut out their tongues. ( I see no tactical or logical reason how this would help in fighting the undead.)

The Clergy and warriors of Morr bodies are the most difficult to raise as undead when dead.

All buildings related to Morr can close their doors completely, be it temples, monasteries or any type of building.

People who have an aptitude for death magic can receive arcane magical training in how to cast some death magic spells at temples of Morr, and also how to draw upon the winds of magic and how to protect oneself from chaos when casting spells and drawing magical power. but the progression would most often not be as fast as in a college of magic. Though most often any person would be directed to a Verena temple, and only in special circumstances would a temple to Morr actively try to teach someone, however people who have an aptitude for death magic and have the correct personality, like for example not being drawn to necromancy, could pray at a temple of Morr and possibly over time get insight into cast different spells that they didn’t know or that they had a hard time casting.


Myrmidia would have both male and female priests, 50/50 split.

No cult of Myrmida Perfecta


Manann would be less fickle and caprices, instead he would be more neutral. If you do not pray to him when traveling across a body of water then you will not suffer any extra negative action. What ever happens will happen.

However if you pray to Manann then you have a chance of having less bad things happening.

The strictures of Manann would not be contradictory.


Stormfels, if included, would be much like his is now except he would not be any reflection of Manann but a separate god.

Stormfels would be a god mostly pirates worship when they want something bad happening to someone else.


The Strictures of Ulric would be changed a bit to fit the novels about Sigmar. And possibly allow a bit more cunning than a strict interpretation of the current strictures would allow. For example when Sigmar rides with his men and engage an orc army, only to then break away have the orcs give chase and then attack the orcs and have them split up.

To allow lies, for example when Sigmar lied that he was going to starve out king Arturs people.

Perhaps increasing the connection with the wolf and have more cunning instead of simple frontal assaults.

Then again the current strictures of Ulric could work if my rules for all religions were installed that ones does not need to follow them all strictly to get the blessing of the god.

Also the question about wearing wolf pelts need to be answered, if each follower needs to go out, possibly several times during their lifetime, and kill a wolf then won't there be a chance of the wolves going extinct. So maybe have it so that one does not need to kill the wolf them self, maybe allow taming of wolves and those are the pelts used or that wolves are not to be hunted at all.


The God Ursun would have chain mail armor and not like now where he is in his underwear. They would have bear riders who wield well made one-handed axes and shields and would wear mostly chain mail, and sometimes full plate if they could afford it.

Also the question about wearing bearskins need to be answered, if each follower needs to go out, possibly several times during their lifetime, and kill a bear then won't there be a chance of the bears going extinct. So maybe have it so that one does not need to kill the bear them self, maybe allow wearing the skin of a tamed bear, or bearskin that was bought.

All Religions

All clergy and all warriors of each religion are more difficult to raise as undead in comparison with “normal” people, the clergy and warriors of Morr being the most difficult.

Many temples have beds and rooms people can rent. People who want to be closer to a particular god might want to sleep in that gods temple, and perhaps even stay there for long periods of time. Some people may sell their world possessions or possible go on adventures to acquire wealth so that they can rent a room at a temple and spend the rest of their lives living their and praying to the gods.

People who have the gift of magic can go to different temples and pray and meditate to receive insight into how to cast spells, a magical user would normally go to a temple of Verena but it is also possible to go to other temples with a corresponding magical area. For example going to a temple of Shallya to learn healing or going to a temple of Morr to learn Death magic spells, going to a Temple of Mann to learn Jade magic spells that correspond with water and weather etc etc.

All followers of religion live longer and healthier than “average” people. The clergy live even healthier and longer and of course the clergy of Shallya live the longest and healthiest and it is not uncommon for a priest of Shallya to reach 150 years before they die, some can even live longer.

All followers and clergy of any religion are more resistant to disease and alcohol, thereby requiring a greater a mount to get affected than the average person, priests of Shallya being the ones with the highest tolerance amongst all religions.

All the good and neutral goods do not have or allow sects cults or members that kill other members who are innocent such for example as the Myrmida perfecta cult described on page 105 in the tome of salvation book.

Possibly no false agent can claim to be an agent of a god without suffering some sort of penalty.

One does not need to agree 100% of the doctrine, one is somewhat free to interpret the general idea of doctrine there are variations between the different religions of course in how much one can “interpret”

The Soul

Some changes to how the soul works, from my perspective souls are treated fairly “cheaply” so possible a change where all souls are recycled and reborn, however if one for example swears or “sells” ones soul to a chaos good then after death it stays in the chaos gods realm for an equal amount of time as one served the chaos god. Or some type of change from how it is now. Also no one not even the demons would know that the soul is not permanently trapped in the chaos good realm and no god would ever mention it so it would be completely unknown to everyone except the gods.

Possibly all gods function in the same way, you “work” for a god for x amount of time and spend X amount of time in their afterword.

No matter what type of physical injury the body sustains in life, the soul is unharmed, so for example if you cut out someones eyes before they die that does not mean that the person will be blind in the afterlife.

The soul can not as easily be damaged or lost as is currently described in the warhammer books. Almost only the gods can do anything to the soul, possibly the Slann as well but only those Slann of very high power. Though of course myth and rumors are plentiful about if one does this or that to the body then the soul will be this or that in the afterlife. Many priests of all religions know that that isn’t the case and try to explain it to people, mostly the priests of Morr and to some extent Verena do most of the explaining.

When it comes to losing one souls and for how long one loses the soul should also be changed. Forever is a very long time, and it mostly beyond a humans comprehension to understand, because as the warhammer world is currently described, as I see it and how I see humans in general, lots of humans would be selling their souls for extremely temporary gains that in the long run don't mean much. So basically as I see it chaos would have long ago ruled supreme and the human race would have been extinct long ago.

Or maybe it works in another am uncertain what to do about the souls.


The money system would be changed, 100 coppers would be 1 silver and 100 silvers would be 1 gold, not how it is now with 12 coppers being 1 silver and 20 silver being 1 gold as described on page 103 in the 2nd edition of warhammer fantasy roleplay.

Dwarf coins would be the most difficult to shave, mill or damage, second would be elven coins, then after that maybe Kislev or Estalian coins, and Empire coins being the ”easiest”. The coins would be protected in different degrees by special manufacturing techniques that makes them very damage resistant, especially dwarven coins.

An average peasant who doesn’t get magical aid, divine or arcane, revenue per year is 1.25 gold, and that is revenue not profit. The profit is something like 5-15 silvers depending on skill and equipment. The peasant can feed his family and the ”profit” is how much he has left after that expense is factored in as well. So the profit is money and or goods at a value of 5-15 silvers. When you factor in the farming gods aid the revenue increases but market forces of supply and demand fight back so even though they get 5 harvests the profits ”only” increase 2,5 or so times. And that if he is not planting potatoes, potatoes give him even more revenue and profit and booze! These are just market theories and would need way more refinement but it is a start.

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Re: If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

Postby GoldandGold » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:18 pm


Magic would be a bit different, there would be a clear difference from when The Empire didn't allow magic and now when it does, a difference in fighting ability.

Anyone can join any priesthood, if they are of the correct alignment and spirit, however some are more naturally gifted with divine magic than others so some will progress further with divine magical abilities than others.

Some people are born with a gift for magic and they are the ones who can learn arcane magic, unlike now where anyone can learn but some better than others.

Acolytes in collages of magic are taught minor spells and as one advances one is taught more complicated spells, but everyone is taught spells, unlike now where an acolyte can possibly never be taught a single spell.

Some wizards, mostly humans, might spend their whole lives studying magic and doing almost nothing else, with the exception when they are called into battle by their respective nations.

The difference is ability would be more clearly established, where one person might only need a few years to learn a number of spells and another person might need a few decades to learn the same spells. Variation in natural ability.

Corruption by chaos would be up to a point be reversible depending on skill and type of magic used. If chaos magic can corrupt, then other type of magic should be able to cleanse. Light magic would possibly be the magic which can “easiest” cleanse corruption but possibly all the 8 types of magic might be able to do something to some degree. Also physically removing chaos corruption from ones body by cutting or burning it out should be possible.

Different types of divine magic would also to varying degrees have some effect at stopping and possibly cleansing chaos corruption.

It could be that for humans that magical development would often follow this path, first you have shamans or some type of hedge wizards, then as society grows more structured you get religious institutions that those with an arcane magical gift would be sent to some of the different religions These individuals would not only be taught divine spells but also might receive guidance in how to do some arcane magic as well. Then after that groups of those who are arcanely magically gifted would start to form schools or disciplines to further develop those skills and that is how you get elementalists and healers, possibly druids etc.

So Shamans, Hedge Wizards ----> Institutional Religion ---> Schools

Another version for some could be

Hedge Wizards, Shamans, ----> Divine guidance through prayer -----> Master - Apprentice System ------> Druids ------> At some point someone starts writing down things ------> Schools

It could be that before any schools of magic were developed or even up until the 8 colleges of magic were developed and even past that, that many people who had a gift of magic would join or be sent to temples of Verena or other temples. These arcanely magically gifted individuals would then over the years through prayer and study learn some divine spells of the deity like any other initiate and or priest of the deity, however they would also learn some arcane magic spells which matched what type of wind they were attuned to. The numerical amount of arcane magic spells that these individuals would gain insight of would be low, but the spells they learned would be “correct” as in how to cast such a spell without risking chaos corruption. Basically you have the gods showing people who pray to them how to correctly cast some spells.

Wizards and armor

As described on page 60 in the 5th edition warhammer rulebook and page in the 4th edition rulebook:

“Wizards wear little or no armor even in the thick of battle, as large amounts of metal upset their magic harmonics and inhibit the use of their powers.”

However riding a horse with barding is not a big problem.

Even metal wizards have problems with large amount of metal close to their body, they can wear more metal than any other type of mage yes, but not much more, just a bit more.

When some wizards practice they do so sometimes in some type of metal garb/clothing/armor, which thereby makes it harder to draw on large amount of magic which allows the wizard to practice on how to draw magic close to their full abilities without actually having to deal with the full amount of magic. The similar concept of running with and without weights.

Light Magic

Light magic would offer healing like it has done in 7th edition and earlier versions of warhammer. Light magic would not be as ”magically expensive” to cast as is described, but instead “cost” the same amount of effort as other schools of magic. Life magic which is nature magic would possibly have some healing spells but far less potent than light magic spells, more in the line of thinking that you can achieve the same result by 2 different means. Example you can cast a fireball on a tree and the tree will start burning, you can cast a lighting bolt on a tree and it might start burning, same end result but different ways. Life magic would have abilities to ”heal” trees and plants restore their functions etc, and this could be used to heal people but far more magically expensive and less effective than light magic spells, and light magic spells could ”heal” trees and plants but less effective than life magic.

Most if not all light mages are good or neutral, a majority good, a minority neutral. Don't know the %.

Egrimm Van Hortsman would have never have existed or could not possibly have been part of the light magic college because he would have been destroyed long before even reaching the pyramid itself and even if he reached it somehow he would have been discovered and there would have been almost impossible for him to change the function or the structure of the chants or magics in the pyramid.

Light magic can not cause earth quakes those spells belong to Jade and of course its sub category Earth magic.

Healing magic is a sub category of light magic. There are some Jade magic spells that heal but jade magic is mostly to heal "nature" and light magic is to heal organisms that arent plants. There can be crossover in the fields but each type is more effective in its own area.

Death Magic

Death magic mages or Priests of Morr can not communicate in other peoples dreams. However they can of course receive dreams or messages from Morr.

Death magic mages telepathy would possibly be removed or weakened a bit.

Possibly only the Slann are capable of telepathy.

Fire Magic

Fire magic is by far the most common magic type for humans. at least in the Empire.

Jade Magic

Most if not all life mages are neutral and good, a majority neutral a minority good. Don't know the %.

Ice magic could be a sub category of Jade magic

Sea magic could be a sub category of Jade magic.

Air magic is sub specialization of some of the Jade magic.

Water magic is a sub specialization of some of Jade magic

Earth magic is a sub specialization of some of Jade magic, earth quake spells are very difficult to cast and very very few mages posses that ability, and when they do manage to cast them they are ”reasonable” earth quakes, the earth quakes do not shake the tectonic plates but possibly just the top soil of the ground maybe a foot or maybe less down, but the ground does shake.

Shadow Magic

Amber Magic

Celestial Magic

Metal Magic

Gold/Metal magic can not change one metal into another.


Necromancy would be a bit different, currently a necromancer or vampire can raise a limitless amount of bodies if only they are close enough and do so instantly, this for me is much to powerful because all that he needs to do is raise and attack raise and attack continuously and do serious damage, even if he is defeated then the next necromancer or vampire that comes around a few years later could do the same thing. My changes would be that an ok skilled necromancer needs about 8-10 days to create 1 walking corpse, if the necromancer works about 10 hours a day and if there are “raw materials” available. So after 10 years of work he would have about 300-400 corpses and could with that army and his own magic he could harass several villages and do serious damage. A skilled necromancer can maybe create a corps in 3-5 days, he can also create bigger “constructs”. Lots of tweaking needed on amount of time.

There is a limit to how many undead a necromancer can control, the greater the skill the more he can control however there is still a limit. A necromancer however can for example like in the 2nd novel of Nagash, “program” the undead with some basic commands and leave them to it, for example patrol area A in a circle etc etc.

Necromancy animates dead bodies, but it does not call back the souls of the dead who inhabited those bodies.

All Magic

Less chance of magical miscast in the backstory /fluff as it functions in most novels written. The problem comes when trying to cast a spell the requires more power than one can control or summon forth or casting it incorrectly, that is when there is a risk of miscast. Not how it is described in the warhammer fantasy roleplay rulebook with a 1 in 10 chance of miscast for a lower level mage and then rolling on the miscast table risking corruption and whatnot. Because with the 1 in 10 chance basically it is guaranteed that the wizard will become severely damaged after casting only 1000 spells which might sound like a lot until you think how often one most practice per day to just master 1 spell, if you only cast 3 times a day well after 1 year you have reached 1000, basically it might be good for an rpg adventure where the character only ”lives” during that adventure but not for the back story of warhammer. So in an adventure that stretches of the weekend with some friends one can use these rules but not however when applying it to the backstory / fluff.

Healing magic both divine and arcane can regrow limbs and teeth, of course it takes time and is somewhat difficult, but possible. To regrow an arm that has been cut at the elbow would take 3-4 hours for an average skilled acolyte who has studied magic for about 3-4 years. Re-attaching the cut off arm however is much easier, even if it has been a few hours since it happened or even days, just even having the bones help. However one can not attach a body part from another person or creature the magic doesn’t work that way, it needs to be the persons own body part, the blood vessels don’t line up and the “auras” aren’t the same. That type of magic would be necromancy and dark magic to do such things. Not certain however about internal organs such as livers, kidneys could be put from one person into another, but external parts, definitely no.

Wizard might also generates his own magic and this is of course one of the 8 if he is a human wizard, or several if elven wizard, not certain yet about elves. Undead however do not generate their own magic. Or maybe a wizard stores an amount of magic as it blows through him, not certain about generation/storage.

Arcane magic is not spoken but quiet, divine magic is spoken and in uses specific words, possibly the language of the gods or language of that specific deity or some type of “divine” language possibly one for each of the gods or group of gods. The better you know and pronounce the language the better ”connection” you get to the god and the stronger your spells are.

All magic wizards ”heal” themselves a little, basically they can function on less food than a normal person, a wizard will live longer than a normal person and recover from wounds a bit faster, light magic wizards are the ones who heal the fastest can go the longest on less food and live the longest. A non light or life wizard will live to an average of 130 years, a life wizard average of 170 and an average light wizard can live to 300. A light wizard can theoretically live forever however that would require serious skill and of course not dying in battle which is the far more common cause of death for a wizard than high age.

Because all mages “heal” themselves a bit, they grow taller, healthier and stronger than an average person, because the magic helps them a bit to cover not eating optimal food, not sleeping at optimal intervals etc etc. Therefore light magic wizards are often tall and physically strong individuals.

The more magic a wizard uses the more tired he gets, so casting many spells or powerful spells makes a wizard feel drained and fatigue. However if a wizard does not cast or practice any spells he would require less sleep, than a normal person, because of the wizards ”natural healing”. Practice, skill and natural ability determine how much a wizard can cast per day.

Magical schools are free and there is no 40 gold debt when a wizard begins to adventure like now in the Empire.

Human wizards are ”specialists” and can theoretically exceed elves in their specific field of learning. For example a human wizard of average ability can become better than an average elf if they studied for the exact amount of time. However since elves live longer and have a far greater collection of written magical lore and a more established teaching system, than this seldom happens, but theoretically it could.

Human magic in the Empire before Teclis, would be a mix of elementalist magic as described by ”mad Albert” and the warhammer fantasy supplement from 1995, Realms of Sorcery, plus a splash of how warhammer magic works now, possibly healing schools, defensive schools, something half similar to how the 8 split is done but not exactly like it.

The collages of magic in Kislev have always studied the nature of magic to understand it, and do so better than the Empire and Marienburg collages. The Kislev wizards have a deeper understanding of the essence of magic than all other human nations of the old world with the possible exception of Albion.

The collages of magic in Marienburg have always studied the nature of magic to understand it better and they have made some progress towards understanding it, less than those in Kislev, but more than those in the Empire.

The collages of magic in Altdorf have begun to study the nature on magic, not as much as the mages of Kislev and Marienburg have done but more than the current warhammer world describes.

The schools of magic that existed in the Empire before Teclis can be seen as mixed sub categories of the 8 collages of magic. Fire magic being closer but not the same as the current fire magic, there were some spells that were there but were not exactly fire magic spells.

Empire magic users do not swear their souls to the different colleges masters.

Empire magic users socialize way more in the colleges than described in the warhammer fantasy roleplay book “Realms of Sorcery” 2nd edition.

Witch sight can be turned on and off with training, just like opening and closing a hand.

Possibly removal of all teleportation spells, except when a daemon is destroyed, and possibly allow Slann to be able to teleport some distance away if they are about to fall in battle.

Possibly the removal of the Skaven escape teleportation spell, or have it be a mix of arcane and divine spell which the Horned rats sometimes grants its servants if they prey for it.

Almost all human magic “schools” if not all do not have their apprentices scrubbing and cleaning overly much. A wizard is a rare commodity and wasting potential on too much menial labor is a waste of resources. An apprentice can be sent as punishment to scrub or clean something and of course has to sometime scrub and clean things to teach discipline and the value of hard work, however not to the extent as described in the 2nd edition of warhammer realms of sorcery rpg book on page 75.

Almost all if not all human magical schools accept students without requiring any payment or endowment unlike how it is described in the 2nd edition of warhammer realms of sorcery rpg book on page 74. Some schools even pay the parents an amount of money sometimes yearly to have the children study at the schools of magic, wizards are rare and the schools want to encourage people joining not have some entry fee that might lead to the parents killing off their kids to avoid paying the endowment.

Some human wizards will sometimes join different clergy, most often Verena but not always, and study to become priests. The individual might be part of the clergy for some time and may possibly go back to “being a wizard” and some might even mix it with being a wizard and being a priest, but it is very rare for a person to be both gifted enough in arcane magic and divine magic to become both a mage and a priest, so usually when a wizard chooses to join a clergy the wizard becomes an initiate or something like that.

As described in the darkblade novels, if one drinks enough alcohol one can prevent demons from talking to one self, or at least not hear them, this would also to some extent help explain why not even more humans have turned to chaos, if a person drinks they can't be influenced as “easily” by demons even if possessed and people usually drink to escape their problems. So the average lifestyle of the average peasant does help against the influence of chaos. So these two forces somewhat cancel each other out, people want to “change their lives” and alcohol prevents this. This concept works on so many levels when one thinks about it. Something like that but more eloquent.

Since most people in medieval times had some type of “buzz” 24/7 if not all out blastered this would offer some protection against the influence of chaos.

Only the gods can affect peoples dreams if even that, because dream magic would be too powerful, you could have 100 dark elf mages for example messing with 100 different human mages every night and basically killing off 100 human mages every night or about 36,000 a year. Or you could have some dark elf or other “evil” mages messing with leaders and basically wiping out whole leadership structures in human lands.

There is a link with how difficult and strenuous it is to cast a spell and the distance it needs to be cast. Magic is difficult if not impossible over long distances to achieve with the possible exception of the Slann, again to prevent 100 dark elves wiping out all human mages easily.

Almost all human wizard colleges / schools teach their students fencing and other styles of close combat skills, not only is this good for “cardio” training it also is a useful skill in the world one lives in. One can not, usually, read books and practice magic all day long there needs to be some variation some physical movement to help keep the body fit and in shape. Magic is a strenuous process so being in shape helps a bit. As a wizard advances he will practice less fencing yes then when he was younger however most wizards will still keep up with some type of practice on a regular basis. This overall means that a wizard usually possess a fighting skill above your average soldier. When you factor in that wizards are more healthy because of magic, better food, better sleeping accommodations and that they get to practice on a regular basis over a longer period of time the end result is an individual who has a a good grasp of close combat melee fighting. So to translate this into numbers I would say that the average human wizard would have a weapon skill of 3,5 where 3,0 is what the average human soldier has and 4,0 is what skilled human soldiers have. The initiative of your average wizard could be 4, I am uncertain. When you factor in the training, the magic that heals the wizard a little, the life long food and better living conditions overall plus that your average human soldier might be half drunk or hung over, then it would logical to presume that a wizard might be a bit faster. All of this is to be applied to the back story of warhammer fantasy in the tabletop game when playing a match 3.0 in WS and initiative can be used, my example of numbers is only to give an estimation of the average human wizards skill in close combat expressed in numbers.



The Bretonnians would be more like they were in the 5th edition with true noble ideals and better leaders, not the corrupt oppression of the 6th edition and onwards. The lady of the lake would be a human deity and not the elven god Lilieath using the humans as a meat shield for the wood elves.

To become a knight one needs to be named a knight by an order of knights or by a noble knight or possibly even the fay enchantress or even the lady of the lake herself. It would not be as in described in the 5th edition of the Bretonnia rule book on page 34 where the fairest maiden of a village sets a task to be accomplished and the knight who accomplishes it marries the maiden. A forced marriage like this would not usually happen. Becoming a knight would be more of a career where you either join a knightly order or fight for a noble for x amount of time and do y amount of things and then you are named a knight.

When a person becomes a full knight it is up to themselves to arm and equip themselves and not the village that they are from. The village may give the knight something but is under no obligation what so ever to do so and not doing so is not frowned upon, it is up to the knight to find their own gear so to speak. Often but not always the knightly order or noble that grants the knight the title of knight will offer some if not all equipment needed.

Bretonnia would have many temples to the lady of the lake and these would have both male and female priests who offer services to the people.

Bretonnian knights are somewhat frugal in comparison to other nations. Bretonnian knights will spend their coins on weapons, armor, food, equipment and mounts and avoid spending on lavish parties, clothing or other things not directly related to their “job”. (Being a knight can from a perspective been seen as a job and all ones wealth goes into that job.)

To become a landed a knight the knight usually needs a significant amount of gold. Once a knight has acquired enough gold if they ever do a knight can be gifted an area or the knight would go to the count of a province and would buy an area that currently does not have a local lord and become the lord of that area. The knight would build or repair a castle in that area. Usually if a knight is gifted an area it would be an area that does not have a castle or keep or the castle or keep is in need of repair. Taxes would be relatively low in comparison to other nations, since the knights needs would be mostly be his gear, maintenance of the keep, men at arms and such. So a complete change from how the 6th edition and onwards Bretonnian knights are described.

It is usually successful knights who become lords because they can afford the cost of building a castle / keep or repairing an abandon one or possibly even repairing their own families castle if it has fallen in disrepair and the family had a castle. A successful knight can always if the wish to keep on buying better and better weapons, armor and mounts if the knight does not wish to become a landed knight.

The landed knights forces would be more of a defensive force, where as the counts and the kings forces would be the one that are sent to clear out areas of enemies.

Not all lords in Bretonnia are knights, maybe all dukes are but not every single lord, knights are a large majority of lords yes, but not every single one. Lords who are not knights usually have no problems using ranged weapons and using gunpowder weapons. There could possibly be a lord or lords who is /are a priest/s of the lady. And in this / these area/s large temples are located.

In Bretonnia there would be soldiers in armor who ride on horses but are not knights. Who for one reason or another do not wish to become a knight but still want to ride a horse and have armor

Bretonnia and Magic

Here are some possibilities of how organized magic might look like in Bretonnia. Some of the possibilities can go together with each other. I am currently leaning towards possibility 5.

Possibility 1

Bretonnia would have some type of collages of magic and both male and female wizards.

Maybe Bretonnia could for a long time be more advanced in there magical knowledge than the Empire. Bretonnia could possibly have some type of elamentalist or other type of magical schools, that were close to the “truth” but ultimately false leads. This could also mean that once Teclis taught the Empire how magic is, Bretonnia might be slower to adapt to these new facts because Bretonnia was so relatively advanced so maybe the 8 colleges of magic have only been created anywhere from 75 years ago to very recently or maybe not at all.

Possibility 2

Maybe Bretonnia because of some deed or deeds or some long personal or state friendship with the wood elves had some wood elves teach Bretonnia about one of the 8 “real” disciplines of magic possibly life magic. So that when it came to this type of magic Bretonnia had almost no false leads and those false leads if they existed would be created by humans after the elves had taught the Bretonnians. These mage might be called Druids or something else, maybe some type of old french word or even older so that it sounds more fancy :)

When the wood elf mage/s taught life magic to the Bretonnians the elven mage/s might have said only use this type of strain, and indicating to the life magic strain in the blowing winds of magic, when using life magic, use no others, this wind and this alone is about nature. And when the human/s asked what are these others, the elven mage/s replied that is for you to figure out. Something like that.

There might have been an order of Druids before the wood elves and out of gratitude or friendship or some reason the elves taught this order about “true” life magic. The Druid order before the wood elves teachings might have had some mix of different winds of magic possibly life, light, celestial and beast. But since they were mixing different winds and had a limited understanding of magic their spells were relatively “simple”. With guidance from the wood elves and by only focusing on a single wind the Druids mastered more complex and harder spells and at the same time decreased their chance of corruption and insanity.

Because the Bretonnian life mages were taught to only use that one singular wind of magic the Bretonnian life mages have a lower amount of mages who became corrupted by chaos in comparison to other mages of elamentalist schools or other type of mages with the possible exception of white magic mages who would have possibly the lowest amount of corruption. White magic could be very close to light magic but not exactly so. And one of the reasons a human mage can be corrupted is when they try to use more than 1 wind of magic.

Possibility 3

It could be so that Bretonnia only has Druids as mages for a long time and anyone who showed a talent for magic was taught by the Druids, and by only focusing on one wind of magic corruption and insanity among the Bretonnian mages was relatively low. However of course by only using one wind those who would have had a talent for other winds performed far bellow their potential.

Possibility 4

It could be that just from a single conversation before or during a battle where the Bretonnians and Wood Elves stood against some common enemy that the Bretonnian Druids because of that gained insight into only using one wind of magic. For example a conversation was had between a Bretonnian druid and a wood elf mage and the wood elf mage asked so what type of wizard are you and the Bretonnian wizard answered that he commands nature or said something like that. And then when the wood elf mage saw the Bretonnian mage cast some spells or drawing up the winds of magic, the Elf said these winds here are not of nature only this is. And from that single conversation because of many reasons the Druids started using only the life magic wind.

Possibility 5

It could also be that when the Bretonnians and Wood Elves fought together against a common enemy that before the battle “young” wood elf mage who had never talked to a human before began a conversation with a Druid and during that conversation the elf said that he was a novice wizard who had only learned the magic of nature but had a firm understanding of every aspect of nature. And that during the battle the Druid when ever he looked at that elf could see the elf only drawing from a single wind of magic, even when casting powerful spells the elf would only use a single wind, and because of what he saw and then other reasons the Bretonnian druids started to only use a single wind of magic.

It could be that the singular druid from the battle knew that if he were to fall or not even be believed then the insight he had gained would be lost forever so the druid wrote down what he had seen and what he had concluded. And after that he began writing down all he knew and what he had learned through out his life. And that concept of writing down what one had learned laid the foundation for the druids “school/s” of magic. Where as before magic was taught from “master” to “apprentice”.

It could be that because of elven contact, which ever options is chosen, that before where the druids used a combination of life, light, celestial and beast winds there now became jade druids, white druids, celestial and beast druids (or some other name/s), so that there was a 4 way split and each branch started to focus on their own wind and not mix the winds. Maybe there only was life and beast magic, maybe there only was life beast and celestial magic.

The Druids might only have known a relatively few amount of spells but because they focused on only one wind that over time they learned more spells and more powerful spells and gained more control.

Possible developments over time

It could be that over time different disciplines such as elementalists and healers and other types of magic “schools” came forth. However because these would mix or have a less of an understanding of magic that their spells were relatively weak and therefore when going to battle the different lords would prefer having (Jade) Druids because their magic was the most potent.

These life magic wizards would have helped and help the Bretonnian land be more fertile then the land would otherwise have been. The Druids helped and help produce larger yields of crops per year then would otherwise have been produced. This magical farming aid in turn has made the average person in Bretonnia less hostile towards mages and magic than the average person in the Empire is towards their mages and magic in general.

Because some reason/s the Druids chose to be “magically pure” and only focusing on this wind/strand/type of magic the Druids were relatively well versed in their knowledge of life magic. Other mages who used several strands saw the Druids are purist or close minded or some other reason and this could be some of the reasons why other Bretonnian mages did not fully grasp their own limitations and the concept of the winds of magic as a whole. It takes some insight to understand that humans can often only focus one of the winds of magic before being overwhelmed by the complexities and not being corrupted. To understand that humans, when it comes to magic, are specialists and not generalists is indeed a significant insight.

And even though the Bretonnians had been shown one of the 8 winds of magic it would still possibly not be until Teclis taught the Empire before the Bretonnians saw how close they were to the “truth” It could even be a bit more of backstory of how after the Empire was taught by Teclis that a group or single Bretonnian wizard/s started to piece things together and it took some time to overcome the internal differences before Bretonnia was on the “right track” when it comes to magic.

General facts about magic in Bretonnia

Because Bretonnia is further away from the north pole than the Empire, Bretonnia has less of an overall chaos influence. The decreased distance to the south pole does not weigh up or counter out the increased distance to the North, It has some factor yes but very small, since not only is the southern poles less corrupted the distance itself means that the influence is very diluted and being a bit closer does not in the same proportion as the distance to the north have the same effect on corruption.


The Marienburg split, if the warhammer world is around 1500 and not 2500, happened when magic was outlawed in the empire and the mages emigrated to Marienburg, this all happened under the Emperor Goldgather who rules around year 1000 or so, maybe 900. The mages and the armies there inflict huge losses on the magic-less Emperors armies.

When Magic was forbidden in the Empire, mages would emigrate, usually to Marienburg or Kislev, but sometimes even further, and this would continue until magic was allowed again. Even to this day, some wizards who have left the colleges of magic in the Empire, go to Marienburg or Kislev, a much better alternative than being harassed / hunted by witch hunters.

As trade with the world increased, so did the magical knowledge of the mages in Marienburg. The mages would buy magical items, scrolls and tomes from all over the world and pay different mages to come and teach them what they knew. And most of the mages of Marienburg would stay clear of dark magic, necromancy and chaos magic.

Since the founding of the Nation the population in relation to the Empire has increased significantly. When the Plague came around the year 1100 the population of Marienburg were able to fight it better because magic was allowed. Because magic has been allowed longer the crop fields have produced more crops and the people have received more aid and healing. So what was once nothing more than a city has grown into a nation whose population is about 1/5th to 1/4th of the Empire.

Maybe even as described on page 202 of the 3rd edition warhammer rulebook, Marienburg has the largest population of any city in the old world.

Marienburg may as Altdorf have magic districts. These districts however are much larger than in Altdorf and more populous.

Maybe Marienburg could for a long time be more advanced in their magical knowledge than the Empire. Marienburg could possibly have some type of elamentalist or other type of magical schools, that were close to the “truth” but ultimately false leads. Some magics, possibly fire magic might have been close to the “truth” but ultimately false leads. This could also mean that once Teclis taught the Empire how magic is, Marienburg might be slower to adapt to these new facts because Marienburg was so relatively advanced so maybe the 8 colleges of magic have only been created anywhere from 150 years ago to very recently or maybe not at all.

Maybe when the Marienburg split happened or some time after, some of the humans were able to convince some elves with some magical ability to teach them some things, in addition priests of Verena would also help the establishment and so would even the merchant god/s priests, so Mareinburg might the have 8 collages of magic or it could possibly some elamentalist mix with some other things. The sea magic collage would exist no matter what kind of mix they had..

Marienburg has not real “enemies” along its land borders so if an land attack comes then Marienburg can focus most of their soldiers on that point. Which means that it is difficult for a single state of the Empire to attack Marienburg. And then of course Marienburg has more mages in relation to its population making it even harder for a single Count / Lord of the Empire to launch an attack.

Marienburg rents out its soldiers to fight enemies of humanity. Marienburg does this for several reason, to protect humanity, to give its soldier experience and of course to make money.

The province of Marienburg has with engineering and magic drained many of its marshes and the city it self has expanded into some of these reclaimed areas.

The Marienburg navy is mostly defensive and has some merchant vessels which trade in the old world and as far as Araby an average of one ship every few months or so travel there. Sometimes, very rarely, a ship will make a trip to the far east but it happens rarely since the trips is very dangerous and the far is east is far away. Maybe once every 5 years a captain decides and succeeds in traveling there and coming back.

Many of the dead are burned, to prevent necromancy and other foul magics from using the dead bodies.

Marienburg could possibly have a very large mix of different types magical schools such as elementalists, healers, and to some small extent sun magic and even druids. And of course a sea magic school, but maybe not the 8 winds of magic colleges because of strong “lobbying” from the elementalists who were forced to leave the Empire and out of spite do not want to listen to what the Empire has to say. So maybe when Marienburg goes to war its leaders prefer to have sea magic mages because their magic is the most potent of what is available.


Kislev would have many of the units described in the 4th edition of Kislev.

Since Kislev is so close to the border of chaos, there would be magics both divine and arcane developed to check if someone is tainted by chaos and there would be regular checks both magical and non magical to see if one is tainted, for example once a week or two, citizens need to undress together with the other villagers in the village hall or in a temple with all other members of the same gender in front of the village elders, or something like that. If done properly then it won't take more than maybe half an hour or less, it could be on “market day” or any type of day where most of the people gather, for those who didn’t show up, home calls could be made by priests who of course travels with guards.

Because of these regular checks both magical and non magical there are few chaos people who can live hidden in society thereby forcing them to move, thereby allowing individuals who are less chaos susceptible to have more children than those who are chaos susceptible thereby increasing the % of individuals who are less chaos susceptible, which has given the current population mix in Kislev of “good stable” people. Because of these checks basically a somewhat less chaos susceptible population has been bred forward, as in won't easily worship the chaos gods or turn towards chaos.

Since Kislev is so close to the border of chaos some of those who would be susceptible to chaos would be drawn to chaos usually before they have children, thereby leaving those who are a bit more chaos resistant to have more children than those who are susceptible.

These checks, “breeding”, tradition and history has given a population that is mostly neutral, like many humans around the world are, and of course a portion that are good, with some evil individuals, fewer evil individuals than the amount of good individuals, and those who are evil are a bit less susceptible to chaos than those humans who are evil in other lands. That does not mean the evil people are less evil, just they won't turn to chaos as often but some of course do.

To clarify, the “breeding” is not something mandated or ordered, it just happened by itself because of the rules that make it harder for a chaos susceptible person to stay in Kislev, thereby leaving those who are less chaos susceptible thereby increasing the % of less chaos susceptible people.

Kislev would have some type of power sharing where there was a Tzar and Tzarina and some form of noble representation in some type of “assembly” who could vote and have some power.

Kislev would be a bit different than it is now, there would be no serfs or slaves, less corruption and oppression because Kislev on the border with chaos could simply not afford any of it.

In Kislev peasants do not ”own” the land. They are allowed to build houses and work the fields as if it was their own but they can't sell or borrow against the land. How much land each peasant is given is determined by the quality of land and how much a 12 strong household of adults could work if they worked full time, so the possibility of making profits is quite high. Kislev has no shortage of workable land, any person can go to the ”land bureau” and be given a ”plot”. Usually when children come of age they can claim a piece of land but there might not be any available land near where they live so they might have to move a considerable distance. When the ”owners” of a piece of land dies it is given to the children, if they still live there, usually the eldest who is still living there, if not the 2nd eldest and so on, if none of the children still live there or want to return or have children of their own which can take over or there are no family members, down to second cousins, who want or can take it over, then the land reverts back to the ”land bureau” and is given to some other peasant who requests land. The piece of land is not divided among the children into smaller plots, a household must take over the whole thing.

Larger ”plots” of land are available more to the north than south, not only because the land in the north is of lesser quality but also to compensate for living closer to chaos.

In Kislev anyone can join ”the army” both male and female and sign up for X amount of years at a time, there is always a need for soldiers. Males and females almost always fight in separate battalions, priests and mages being the exception.

Kislev is constantly at war with chaos, every few years a band of somewhat considerable size will launch an attack on the land of Kislev. Every few decades a pretty serious sized army will attack, and every few hundred years there are these big incursions of chaos.

Because Kislev has good and stable people, they can handle these wars and the population, despite the constant warfare, is actually growing but marginally. If Kislev could however be free from war even for just a single generation it could become the strongest nation in the old world.

With the establishment of the farming god and the potato, the growth rate of the population of Kislev has actually increased to a bit more than marginal.

Kislev has far better ”medical” care than the Empire and hygiene is far higher because a long tradition of magic, few evil people, respect for the healing sciences and religion, few children die at an early age many survive, which means families of 8 being the normal, but 17 or more not unheard of.

Even though Kislev invented Vodka the soldiers and the people drink far less than the people of the empire, and it is considered a dishonor to be drunk before a battle. If one is not in control of senses one is making it easier for chaos to win and ones friends, family and countrymen of dying. The people of Kislev drink and celebrate when they are safe and secure, when they do not have to do battle for at least three days.

Kislev does not attack the Empire but sometimes has to protect itself from corrupt nobles of the Empire who launch attacks against Kislev’s southern border. Kislev has never lost any of its land for long to an Empire invader and has always reclaimed lost land, eventually.

Kislev has conscription of all males from the year they turn 18. They train for 1,5 years and for the last 6 months they usually march out and clear an area of enemies for example a forest or even going into troll country.

All dead are burned, to prevent necromancy and other foul magics from using the dead bodies.

Kislev has a foreign legion which accepts almost anyone into it. People sign up for 5 years at a time they receive training for 2 years and are then deployed to clear out different areas of enemies, usually chaos or greenskins.

Erengrad may be the 2nd busiest port city in the old world and the 2nd largest, as described in the 4th edition of Kislev.

Kislev and Magic

Kislev would have both male and female ice wizards, just as they did have in the 4th warhammer edition of Kislev

In Kislev all mages are called either acolytes, mage, magician, wizards with some title before or after these words. There are no official titles “witches”, and no mage would tolerate being called a witch, and no normal person would call a wizard that because of both respect of their talents, and fear of what a mage might do to them.

Many of Kislev magical “institutions” would be located in Erengrad. The College of Ice Magic would be in the city of Kislev and there would be both male and female ice mages. Prague would have a abandoned fire mage elamentalist tower as described in the Ulrika novels by Nathan Long.

Here are some different possibilities on how organized magic is Kislev might look like, they are not mutually exclusive and can be mixed.

Possibility 1

It could also be that Kislev only has ice magic and anyone, both male and female, with a talent for magic, and who was not sent to a temple, was only taught ice magic. This would give a huge variation in skill and ability, those not naturally attuned towards this type of magic would be under performing in their potential ability. So a person who might have been a mage lord in for example metal magic, might only ever reach the ability of an acolyte or initiate wizard of ice magic.

Possibility 2

Kislev could for a long time be the most advanced main land old world human nation when it comes to magic, it could possibly have some type of elamentalist or other type of magical schools, that were close to the “truth” but ultimately false leads. White magic and fire might might be the ones closest to the “truth” but not completely in relation to light and fire magic of the elves. This could also mean that once Teclis taught the Empire how magic is, Kislev might be the nation slowest in the old world to adapt to these new facts because Kislev was so relatively advanced so maybe the 8 colleges of magic have only been created anywhere from 50 years ago to very recently or maybe not at all.

Possibility 3

Kislev might have the 8 collages and the conclusions for the 8 different would have come from the Kislev people themselves who with the help of Verena Priests and by accepting mages from all over the world figured it out and then after had some help and confirmation by some elves.

Possibility 4

It could be that Kislev developed the concept of having some mages only study and practice “white magic” which is light magic. This type of magic is very effective against chaos. Because these mages only focused on one wind of magic the mages run a smaller chance of insanity and corruption than those who mix several strands. In addition to that light magic in and by itself leans towards being very corruption resistant which has given the end result of very few white mages being corrupted.

So there would be Ice Mages, White mages and then a number of other type of mages.

Possibility 5

It could be because of the success of the white mages and because Kislev is close to the border of Chaos that many mages had to learn at least some white magic, “because it is good to know”. And because of that edict which seems good from a glancing perspective, Kislev never developed the theory of the 8 winds of magic and splitting up each wind into a separate school. Because almost all mages had to learn some white magic this led to a higher number of insanity and death among the Kislev mages then would have otherwise have occurred, and and overall lower performance. Also this led to that other branches of magic were less developed because they had to focus time and energy on a wind of magic they might not be attuned to.

Ice mages would be for one reason or another be allowed to only focus on their own ice magic and not forced to also learn “white magic”

Possibility 6

At some point in time druids from Bretonnia for one reason or another, possibly to increase crop yields, taught some Kislev mages possibly Kislev druids some / all of what they knew. And these Kislev mages would also become “purist” only using one wind of magic.

Druids would be for one reason or another allowed to only focus on their own life magic, maybe because of the need of greater crops yields and that these “farming wizards” would not be sent to war, so they would not be forced to also learn “white magic”

Maybe because of the creation of a school for druids this lead to a decrease in the amount of new ice mages because they use the same wind and because of the decrease Kislev became a bit more reluctant to adapt foreign ideas when it came to magic. So that Kislev would “only” have their Ice magic, White Magic, Druid Magic and these 3 were the only ones to receive any type of institutional support. Where as other types such as elamentalist having to do on their own.

Possibility 7

It could be that Kislev only has ice magic and anyone, both male and female, with a talent for magic was only taught ice magic. And it could be possibly that this was the case until Bretonnian druids arrived and showed their magic after which a Kislev druid order was established. Or even until several years after Teclis taught the Empire about magic.

Other Kislev magic related things

It could be because ice magic is not one of the winds of magic but a sub category, that this was one the reasons that Kislev did not fully grasp the winds of magic and were reluctant to adapt to the teaching of Teclis.

Ice magic might be a pure sub category of life magic but it might also mix some parts of celestial magic, if it is a pure sub category of jade magic then that would explain why few ice mages have been corrupted, if it is a mix it could be so that almost all of the magic used is jade magic with just a small touch of celestial magic and there would be less ice mages corrupted than other different magical schools however a bit more than those who study white magic.

Some wizards who have left the Empire, go to Kislev or Marienburg, a much better alternative than being harassed / hunted by witch hunters.

Erengrad is a port and trading city and once it established trade with lands to the far south, Araby, and in these lands there were mages who used “sun magic” the mages in Kislev had not fully grasped the 8 winds of magic when trade was established however the Kislev mages did have some spells in the area of light magic which they at the time called white magic. As trade was established at first they would buy magical items; swords, knives and any type of weapon, shields and armor, scrolls and magical tomes from these southern mages but after time they even paid one to come and teach them about sun magic, and this gave the the Kislev mages a greater variety of spell and insight into light magic. When trade was established with Grand Cathy the Kislev mages did the same, at first they would buy scrolls and tomes of Magic of the Heavens and after that they paid a few mages to come and teach them what they knew. This in turn increased the Kislev Mages knowledge and understanding of Celestial magic. And as more and more trade was made across the world the same pattern would follow at first the Kislev mages would buy scrolls and tomes and after time pay a mage to come and teach them what the mage knew. Almost all the mages of Kislev would stay clear of dark magic, necromancy and chaos magic.

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Re: If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

Postby GoldandGold » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:21 pm

The Empire

The Empire could be almost as corrupt at it is now because Kislev protects it from the North, Bretonnia and Mareinburg from the West and mountains with Dwarfs to the South and East, thereby allowing the Empire the luxury of corruption and incompetence.

When a corrupt noble assumes power they usually kick out priests of Verena.


The capitol Altdorf could have a population of anything between 1 to 2.5 million, if Rome could have 1 million so can Altdorf if not more.

All the “special” buildings of the colleges would be visible to all, not like now where they exist in a parallel but not separate magical space.

The different magical colleges would have their own “districts” like they do now and each one would be close to the wall. Each district would be populated almost exclusively with people that the different colleges deem acceptable.

Wizards would be able to move freely within their own districts and rent houses or apartments from the college who might possibly own all buildings within the district, personal ownership of a building could possibly be allowed, there could be a mix of X amount of space is owned by the college and Y amount is allowed to be personally owned.

It could be that many wizards would spend most of their lives within Altdorf and rarely travel outsides its borders, not because they are forced to but because they feel that it is their community their home and everything they need is there.

If a magical colleges desires to expand their territory they are only allowed to do it by claiming land adjacent to Altdorf outside the wall. However to do so, they must first build a new wall which covers the whole new area and connects back to Altdorf before they are allowed to dismantle the old wall, they do not need to dismantle the old wall they can keep it if they want to. They are not allowed to expand outwards into an area that would block a potential expansion of another college. The new wall must also be close to equal or greater quality then the old wall excluding of course any magical effect and only looking at the actual build quality. And the quality is to be judged by Dwarfs. This expansion rule slows down the speed of which the magical colleges acquire wealth.

All magical colleges are responsible for the maintenance of their section of the wall and must keep it up within a “reasonable” standard.. They are not allowed to let the wall deteriorate and then use the weakened wall as a standard for the building of the new wall. When and if they expand, the new wall must be close to the same quality or of greater quality than the old wall had when it was newly constructed.

Each district would not only have wizards living there but also people who have some magical ability or sensitivity towards that type of magic.

Family members may live there if they meet the alignment requirements and can afford it.

In addition to that non magical people may live there if they meet the requirements that the district has; for example has wealth of X amount, the right type of alignment, has a source of income, has a specific trade etc etc.

There is rivalry between the different colleges of course, however it is a “gentlemens rivalry” wizards would go to great length to avoid killing or harming each other because wizards are so rare, some wizards see them selves are more civilized and those who are naturally inclined to murdering off competition also of course view magical users as “special” or “chosen” so would not want to kill them off, there are many different reasons why there is no violence between the wizards, but the end result is that the rivalry is non violent and more “good natured”.

If a wizard goes of adventuring, he usually does so with a group, and often with people he can trust, which often is an adventure or mission organized by the college. The wizard has most likely by then spent a large part of his life inside his district and the people who he knows live inside the district. However if wizards wish to go on an adventure not connected to the college he often does it with some type of religious order. Usually it is a Myrmidian group, but sometimes it can be different religions, for example death magic users will often travel with the followers of Morr to fight the undead, if, that is, the wizard decides to go on an adventure. A wizard can of course, and sometimes they do, go off alone or with smaller parties, however most of the time when a wizard goes on an adventure it is with a group he knows. A wizard can make a reasonable amount of money by selling his services to the Empire during war, by enchanting items or creating different magical items, so from a monetary perspective the adventure needs to be very lucrative if the wizard would consider doing it if money is the main goal of the adventure.

Because of the growing wealth, prestige and power of the colleges the colleges can to some extent make sure that when wizards are sent to war they are often done so with competent commanders and fully outfitted forces this in turn has lead to that soldiers, if they are sent to war, want to go with armies that have wizards which in turn means that those armies have a greater % of talented soldiers. All of this has to some degree lead to an increase in the reputation and view of wizards.

The Light Magic District

The light magic district would be the most populous with a population of 15,000.

Any chaos affiliate or undead who comes close to the light magic district will start to “feel” uncomfortable, function less, find it harder to think ( if they can think at all) and possibly take some amount of damage. Inside the district many lower level chaos affiliates or undead will simply be destroyed. Inside the pyramid itself only powerful chaos or undead can hope to survive and even if they do they will be significantly drained and weak in comparison to their normal form. That also means that beneath the light district it would be very difficult and extremely uncomfortable for Skaven to operate, unless of course they are very deep underneath the district.

The light magic district is one of the safest areas in the Empire if not the most safe area. The district has the least amount of chaos or undead within it, almost always holding at zero, except of course those kept prisoners inside the pyramid.

The light magic district has no poverty and is almost completely crime free, only rarely does any crime happen there and it is almost always an outsider who does it. Verena constables will almost always find the perpetrator. And almost all crime that does happen is petty crime, or the most usual case mistakes made and accidentally breaking the law. So crime rarely happens if it does it is either and outsider or someone by accident breaking the law. And example would be someone walking down the road slipping and by doing so hits someone else, this type of accident would not be brought before any type of criminal hearing even though hitting someone is against the law unless justified (just an example of some type of accident).

Non magical people with no family connections sometimes move into the district because of the very high corruption resistance and very low crime. This is of course allowed if they meet the requirements set by the district.

In the light magic district the light mages have a special house for healing, where people who can pay get treatment. People from all over the Empire come to get treatment for this or that ailment. Often it is the rich who come because they do not want to be seen in a temple of Shallya because of all the poor, or because the temple of Shallya doesn’t have time to give them the long term treatment that they need, or for a number of other reasons. This healing for gold is quite lucrative and is one of the reasons why the light magic district and the light magic college has a relatively large revenue stream of money.

The light magic district has the healthiest population and the most corruption resistant population in the whole of the Empire. Almost, if not all, soldiers who live and or work in the district would have a very high chance of being healed of any wounds or damage they have received because the temples and the college will as part of the students training have the students practice their healing and so would need volunteers to practice on. This is well known through out Altdorf and the days when this happen people will request entry into the district to be healed of their different ailments. The people are in let in on a mixture of wealth and alignment where there more “good” you are the less you have to pay, this in turn on a small scale increases the amount of good people alive in the world. Since evil people would never be allowed into the district there are no killings or assassinations to advance in the line by more wealthy but less good individuals.

The light magic district temples of Shallya function not only as spiritual centers but also “health centers” were people go to get treatment for what ever ails them. Mages go and practice healing there to learn and to get first hand experience. Mostly it is initiates that go there.

Light magic wizards do go to other temples of Shallya outside the light magic district to learn how to treat more complex and serious ailments that do not usually occur inside the light magic district. However when light mages travel to temples of Shallya outside the light magic district, they usually do so in groups and escorted by guards to prevent any incidents or thefts. At first mages would treat people within the district. As a mage advances in skill he would travel to other magic districts and treat people there. Ones a mage has progressed far enough and if he wishes to continue expanding his knowledge of healing he would travel outside the magical districts usually with several guards and treat people in the rest of Altdorf to get training and experience in ailments that do not usually occur to people who live in the magic districts.

The Life Magic District

The life magic district could have a large forested area possibly more than 2 square miles within its district or it could be outside of Altdorf but close by. It would be know as the “park” or Altdorf park. Anyone with the right alignment who could afford the entry fee, would be allowed in and it is an extremely safe area, for a forest. It is here most elves stay when they come to visit the Altdorf. There are no beastmen or chaos creatures in the forest and the only animals in the forest are small ones such as birds, squirrels, mice, hares, moles etc. This is to protect people and to prevent poaching of game animals.

If “the park” is outside of Altdorf then the life magic district could be of “medium” size, possibly with lots of plants and vegetation or without.

It could be so that those soldiers trained in that district become good scouts.

The Fire Magic District

The fire mages would not like is currently described waste a lot of pupils on training, every single person who has a talent for magic is viewed as valuable commodity by all mages and is not to be wasted as is currently described.

The fire magic district would almost exclusively only have stone buildings, even thought fires are extremely rare because of the strict guidelines of magical use. Some of the no magical people who live in the district really really, I mean really like fire and so they move there to see the fire in all of its glory. Some people who live there are just normal people who needed somewhere to live. Some people who live there do so because of their trade. Some people who live there might be related to any of the types described or to a mage or magically sensitive person.

Since fire magic is the magic that human mages show a talent for the district has the largest amount of mages of any of the districts but not possibly the largest population overall which could be the light magic district.

The Amber magic district

The Amber mages of the Empire are known for their ability to breed very fine horses and even exotic creatures. If someone wants to purchase a quality mount one goes to the Amber district.


Estalia is somewhat united land in a lose confederacy under a Myrmidian theocracy and it is a stable and ”fair” rule, the priests are not corrupt or evil. Estalia still has different somewhat independent provinces with different laws and traditions but they very rarely war against each other and will respond to a call from the Myrmidian leadership.

The Estalian “unification” happened anywhere from 50-10 years ago, or maybe just before the new war against chaos or during it, I am not certain.

The Estalians now, somewhat, united have declared “a crusade” against the skaven to purge their lands of skaven and possibly in the future recover the lost city of Kazavar also know as Tylos now know as Skavenblight and its surrounding land. Since they found out what happened possibly by cross references of old books and divine guidance.

The Estalian navy is mostly defensive and has some merchant vessels which trade in the old world and as far as Araby a few ships a year travel there. Sometimes, very rarely, a ship will make a trip to the far east but it happens rarely since the trips is very dangerous and the far is east is far away. Maybe once every 10 or 15 years a captain decides and succeeds in traveling there and coming back.

After the “unification” of Estalia and the declaration of the crusade against the Skaven all expeditions into other lands have been called back, and no more ships travel to Lustria. Ships have instead increased trade with the old world and now a few travel to Araby every 6 months or so, an average of about 1 every 2 or 3 months.

The Estalians had before unification some hedge wizards and some type of magical schools such as elamentalist, healing and others in some of the different “states”. But since the unification they have begun establishing collages of magic with some help from Kislev and maybe something from Marienburg, the Empire, and maybe even some elves giving some minor help.

Because Kislev wizards and guidance played a somewhat significant role in helping establishing organized magic, there could possibly a sub section of the Jade collage of ice magic with a few Estalian ice mages.

Since Marienburg also helped somewhat and because Estalia is somewhat of a seafaring nation another sub section of the jade collage is devoted to sea magic.

Estalia has to now and again fight off dark elven invasion/ slave raids. The dark elves come now and again to loot, pillage and raid the Estalian coasts, mostly for slaves.

After Estalia became somewhat united it has also tried to establish a better rapport with Tilean states and some in Estalia are even considering a unification with its neighbor but such an act would possibly require the reclaiming of Kazavar.


Inspired of the unification of Estalia at least 2 Tilean states have merged.

The farming god has become quiet popular in many of the fertile lands and they have stopped declaring war as often on each other and have begun building up their own states instead. Myrmidia is still however the primary deity of the nobility and upper classes.

The Tilean states would have a large variety of mages, from Empire mages who for one reason or another have left the Empire to domestic hedge wizards and other type of magical practitioners. The different states may have some type of schools to some type of magic.

The Border Prince, Human nation

The Creation of a very new ”country”, 20- years old or so maybe even much younger, somewhere in the Border Prince region starting out with maybe nothing more than a town. A light magic mage who was feed up with the corruption and bullshit in the Empire, tired of witch hunters burning the innocent and bowing to the guilty, tired of ”nobles” oppressing the weak and the nobles constant infighting, establishes this ”land” where he is king but where there are no nobles and all citizens can vote for a representative, so a form of constitutional democracy.

In this new land, all the human deities, of the old world, who are either good or neutral are given one guaranteed seat, if of course they have a priest and/or worshipers. Depending of the age of the country the ”house” might not be fully representative of a normal human population because simply there aren’t enough people living there. Most people usually vote for someone from the clergy so the ”house” is almost completely filled with representatives from different religions. If the country had been old like maybe 100 or 200 years then the farming god would have the largest representation and Morr the god of death only having his one guaranteed seat because few would vote for the god of death. But since it is a new country the seat distribution might be different. And of course in the warhammer world where there are actual gods, these priests are stable people who are not easily corrupted.

The new country which is/was not much more than an empty piece of land that grew/ will grow into a small town/ hamlet was established by; the light mage, a priest and a few acolytes of Verena, a few priests, 2-3, and a bit more acolytes of Shallya, a priest and a handful of acolytes of Myrmidia, and a single priest of Morr, in addition to that maybe some acolytes of the farming god were also there from the beginning or joined a bit after 1-2 years. At about 1-2 years after the establishment a priest of the merchant god arrived.

This new country in the Border Prince also has magic with the help of Verna and possibly also Shallya, that can detect the alignment of a person, and in addition to that has 3 rules. No individual naturally evil may become a citizen of the land, no individually naturally evil may permanently settle in the land, no individually naturally evil may be born into the land. Which means that almost everyone is either good or neutral.

In this new country priests and acolytes of Verena operate a ”police force”.

In this new country with the help of Verena the establishment of collages of magic has begun.

In this new country there will be and/or is far fewer death magic and gray magic wizards than in the Empire in proportion to its population. There will be and/or is however more light magic wizards in proportion to its population than in the Empire.

In this new country all dead are burned or cremated to make it harder for necromancers or other evils to raise the dead, so that unlike the Empire there will not be bodies in graves that are 500 years old to be raised.

The Border Prince, a Dwarven hold

Somewhere in the border prince a dwarf hold with expatriate dwarfs is established or a dwarven hold lets in many expatriate dwarfs and in this hold dwarven mages are let in, with some back story how a dwarven mage together with some human mages helped in the defense of the hold against attackers. The defenders who surely, without the magic, would have lost many dwarfs but because of the magic the dwarf losses where relatively few, possibly not a single one.

This hold also allows female dwarfs to assume any profession just as expatriate dwarfs do and this hold starts with the dwarf program of 1 child per year per woman, more about that later under races.
This hold is also somewhere relatively close located to the new human “town” maybe at most 20 miles, not certain about the distance, but “close”. Less than a days walk.

This Dwarven hold could be Karak Grom as described in Nathan Longs novel the battle of skull pass with some modifications to the story.

A Vampire Nation

A vampire nation that is ruled by vampires but treats their people like a farmer treats their cattle. Not like how Sylvania is described now where the people are half starved, mentally (Ignore me, I'm an idiot) and the very definition of idiocy. But instead where the people are well feed and there is almost no crime or corruption by humans.

The vampires do not oppress or harass the people but instead provide real security, every criminal is sentenced to being drained, perhaps not completely but significantly for several days, or perhaps completely, not sure if there are degrees depending on crime or if all crimes are sentenced with death, and that is how the vampires keep themselves fed. If you do not break the laws which are perfectly normal laws not oppressive corruption or anything like that you can live a perfectly normal life.

The vampires of the nation also drain people just before the people die of high age or when people are about to die from sickness or injury.

All dead bodies, from any type of death are then take by the vampires and used as “raw materials” for the vampires creations.

There would be some type of “rules” for who gets which body, who gets to drink and a market where blood rights, bodies and body parts were sold.

All religions are forbidden in the land since “holy” objects damage the undead.

Maybe making silver illegal to use in coinage and creation of any items. And maybe not, am uncertain about this one.

This vampire nation could be anywhere possibly Sylvania and possibly not.

This nation could possibly be close to the dark elves, possibly on the same continent as the dark elves somewhere on the border with chaos, making an interesting story how some human slaves who escaped did so by either being turned by a vampire or making some deal with an evil “spirit / higher power that is non chaos” And this “deity” is “worshiped” by the vampires who offer sacrifices to it.

Or somewhere in the world that has been attacked by the dark elves or somewhere along the sea raiding routes of dark elves.

In this vampire nation dark elves are held prisoner sometimes intact, sometimes with their eye plucked out, tongues, feet and hands cut off, fed and kept alive to be drained by the vampires possibly for eternity unless the dark elf somehow escapes or dies.

The vampire nation is ruled by a Vampire male who has some pretty ok skills in magic and fighting but is a bit unstable, since only an unstable vampire could create such a nation with these laws. Or it could be ruled by the vampire female Neferata who studied humans for several millennia, and this nation and its laws is the conclusion of those studies.

The vampires as I wrote do not hurt or oppress the human “subjects” and instead by following the “vampire laws” are quite well fed and have plenty of “raw materials” to “create” with. Since this is the Warhammer world the vampires always have a supply of orc and skaven blood, because there is always an orc or skaven attack somewhere or the vampires can just go down in the earth and find skaven tunnels and get all the blood and “raw materials” that they need. Plus of course the dark elves that they have captured, and continue to capture when the opportunity presents itself.

The vampire Nation could be Lahmia.

The vampire nation does not actively attack dwarfs or high elves, the vampires will of course defend them selves if attacked but do not actively seek out and attack dwarfs and high elves. If for some reason a dwarf or high elf is involved in some sort of fight, then the vampire/s take them back to vampire/s “home” and drain their blood of course but they do not use the bodies for “constructs”. They destroy the bodies so that all physical evidence of them ever being there is removed.

The vampire nation does not attack other human nations unless someone there is threatening an attack on the vampire nation or is planing a raid or some form of attack.

The vampires only actively attack dark elves, greenskins, skaven, forces of chaos and other type of “aggressive” forces. However the vampires will avoid attacking the forces of “order” if possible.

Because of how the system works, the vampire nation could possibly be the strongest vampire nation in several thousand years, even rivaling Lahmia at its height of power, and if things continue as they have, then this vampire nation could possibly become the most powerful vampire nation ever, and possibly the strongest “human” nation ever.

Many vampires do not approve of how things are run, even though the results are far greater than anything any other vampire could achieve under any other type of system, however as long as the “leader” is in charge the vampires keep their opinions to them selves and follow the laws.

The “vampire nation” could be in the border prince as described in: nights dark masters a guide to vampires on page 72 and onwards, where there is a single vampire (Strigoi) and his vision to create something close to what I described where the humans are not viewed as cattle but as subjects and the vampires are forbidden from taking anyone not guilty of a real crime, and the vampires if they want blood have to go and search for it, most often by hunting orcs or even holding dark elf raiders captive and using them to drink from.


Albion would have two Islands on big and one small, the isle of wights where few or no people live.

The different factions of Albion have united under one ruler possibly recently, possibly when Gotrek and Felix visited, because they came to the realization that if they constant attack and steal from each other they will forever be poor and weak but if they work together and build they can reclaim their lost land and keep the dark elves at bay.

Also with the unification came the establishment of the farming god who helps with the weather and constant rain despite the mists, without affecting the protective abilities of the stones. So the mists form a barrier around the Islands but there would be sun in the middle. It would still rain more often than it does in the Empire, but not as often as it does now, and it would be possibly to plant and cultivate crops.

The truthsayers have now gathered together and constructed a “college/s” because they are now more organized than before they have begun purifying the stones.

The farming gods magic plus the now gathering of truthsayers into a “college” has begun to purify the land.

Once the people are numerous enough and developed enough they can remove the mists that surround Albion and take their land back from the rain.

After Gotrek, Felix and Teclis visited the Island, Teclis returned with a group of mages who helped close down and purify the passage ways of the old ones, and purify and stabilize the Oghma stones.

The elves also helped in the establishment of the “collage/s” of magic.

The lizardmen at some point arrived and took each and every magical item and anything that wasn’t part of a stone building, so all items, tablets, treasure, everything, except the temple/s it / them selves were taken. And then the Lizardmen left. The Island/s were after all originally gifted by the old ones to the humans living there

Possibly the removing of the Oghma stones from Albion altogether that they never were placed there never existed and the mists came from some other source and the Giants might never have been there or were placed to protect the Temple/s of the old ones. Possibly only having one temple of the old ones and it is now almost completely destroyed / gone. Possibly having the Turthsayers protecting the passageways of the old ones and the one temple now with the destruction of both they instead now have a new purpose.

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Re: If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

Postby GoldandGold » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:26 pm



All Humans in the old world speak ”common” with some mild variations, just some words here or there and possibly pronunciation. The gods have had a hand in this, possibly all of them. It could be that for some time after the gates fell from the skies and chaos entered the world that the human people got divided a cut off and started to develop their own languages as their gods or their connection with their gods weakened. But now, at least in the old world, the languages have started to meld together into “common”. Maybe Verena played a large part in all of this, maybe all of the gods did. Irregardless of how it happened it is happening now.

This would from a story perspective allow each nation to have some type of accent when they speak, but they speak mostly the same language with some words and phrases left over from their old/er language/s.


Dwarfs have flamethrower cannons called Baragdrakk in the dwarf tongue, a mechanical contraption that sprays great gouts of liquid flame, and burns enemies from their lairs. As is written in one of the Sigmar novels.

Dwarfs rune masters do not have the ”rule of pride” this might be good in a tabletop game but not in the whole back story of warhammer. Obviously there are copies of rune and rune combinations on many runic weapons, since obviously there are only so many different type of runes.

Dwarfs have runes that strengthen rocks and earth, thereby making it almost impossible to dig under Dwarf holds or attack them by breaking through their walls. Preventing the ever nagging theory of why goblins and skaven simply don't just dig a big hole under dwarf holds and simply have it fall.

Dwarfs have runes that can ”heal” rocks, thereby repairing cracks and fissures.

Dwarfs have very few ”thieves” even expatriate dwarfs are very very rarely if ever thieves.

Slayers: As I see it Slayers in warhammer usually don't have armor because of 2 reasons, 1 was that in the tabletop game it would have made for a very expensive and powerful unit for the dwarfs to have an unbreakable and almost undamagable unit. Secondly they most likely weren't given armor because of how it looks; shirtless dwarfs shouting and making faces is an esthetically different thing from fully armored dwarfs. So in my version slayers could of course have armor however, when a dwarf becomes a slayer he doesn’t want to burden the family more by walking of with an heirloom and expensive piece of craftdwarfship, so he takes only what he needs, a slayer can of course buy an armor or if his whole clan was slain use the family armor, in addition to that the wear and tear of a slayers armor would be greater than a normal dwarfs because the slayer constantly seeks out battle.

I want at some time in recent history around 20 or 30 years ago have the Dwarfs re-evaluate their birth system. Currently a female dwarf usually has 4 children, there are 3 males born for each female, a net zero birth rate. A female is pregnant for 9 months just like a human. and has1-3 husbands. However I want there to be some big back story where the dwarfs were forced to answer and do a proper calculation on why they didn't simply have one child per year and how many Dwarfs would be born if they had one child per year per married female and how many lost holds that could be reclaimed with such an increase in numbers. Upon seeing the numbers after the proper calculation made by Dwarfs, at least one hold began having more children.

Dwarfs, who are not chaos dwarfs, and mages are very rare as described in the Warhammer fantasy roleplay supplement Dwarfs Stone and Steel. To what is written their I want to add some things. Dwarfs who do study magic are expatriates, usually learn elamentalist magic, Fire, Earth, as described in the book, and maybe Wind and Lightning. Dwarfs know far fewer spells, their magic is less powerful, but they make far fewer mistakes and are very corruption resistant. Because they make less mistakes and usually live longer than humans the net effect can still be some pretty ok magic. Dwarfs also have higher endurance than human wizards and can cast longer and require less time to recover after casting many spells, in comparison with human wizards of equal skill.

Dwarfs do not pass on grudges made against human on their descendants. Dwarfs do not judge humans by dwarven standards. A Dwarf is a Dwarf and a Human is a Human. Possibly some back story to this a grudge being made against a human and his descendant/s making a good case in front of the high king that one can not judge human by dwarven standards.

Dwarfs have good teeth that do not suffer often from diseases.

Not certain about this one; Dwarfs are more carbon dioxide resistant than any other race, so they can sometimes burn away some of the oxygen thereby chocking an opposing force, if properly done. They have special runes that burn away oxygen. And they have runes that create oxygen. Defensive passages usually have ”low ventilation” And only the ”main road” has a good stable amount of oxygen. I don't know if this tactic is new or has been used for many years.

Not certain about this; Dwarfs also have runes that can drain all magic of any type except other runes, of magic. So a powerful rune could drain away even a divine magic items or a very corrupt magic item. Different runes for different types of magic. There are runes that drain away all types of magic, and there are specialists rune that drain specific types of magic. These type of runes prevent undead from simply overrunning dwarf holds. But of course the runes can only drain so much magic per minute there are limitations of course. But they don’t drain ”the winds of magic” that naturally flow over the world.

Dwarfs have special boxes where on puts magical items and the runes then drain away the magic from the items. The runes can be removed relatively ”easy” for an average rune smith. Then other boxes with other runes that convert that magic to ”neutral rune magic” and finally other runes that convert this neutral rune magic to specific rune magic needed for a rune. So a rune is made with both or either capturing the winds of magic into a rune and or transferring magic into it from one of these collector runes.

Maybe Dwarfs have flamethrowers ”cannons” which can fire ”on and off” and not needed to be firing constantly, powered by runes and have a ”ammo load” of about 30 seconds up to 5 minutes depending on quality of rune before a few days of recharging is required. The runes recharge themselves over time. Range is from an average of 50 yards up to 200 or so for high quality runes. (During ww2 the average range was 20-40 yards and 10-20 seconds was about what a flamethrower soldier had in his tube and he could inflict a lot of damage with that.)


Elves are generally healthy, do not suffer often from diseases and have good teeth.

High Elves

Maybe the Elves of Ulthan hearing about the dwarven birth program also started having more children, not as many as 1 per year, but more than they currently do, and greater than their death rate.

Maybe somewhere close to human border prince area or inside it or somewhere else there are some non wood elves living, and maybe they somehow come in contact with a human male. And perhaps over time they develop some type of understanding or relationship of trading or working together and at some point they start spending some amount of time together, possibly sharing meals when they trade or some type of formal occasions, and the elves then when talking more freely will often say that the elves are a dying race or something of that sort, and the human after hearing this many times says “then why don't you make more elves” or something like that and the elves respond that they are no “breeders” like other races or something like that, and then the human leader says : you have a solution to your problem and if you do not want to do it then stop complaining, or is that you like complaining that is the real concern and if you changed your ways you can not complain about being a dying race anymore? The elf looks bemused at the human and the human says : but then again if you do it then you could always complain that your traditions have changed and how much better it was before.

Dark Elves

The Druchii, dark elves, must either have a greater birth rate or not kill each other off as often as is currently described especially in the Darkblade novels. If one applies the current death rate and birth rate to the Druchii then their population would have dwindled to nothing long ago.

There would be soldiers called Endless and they would be as described in the Gotrek And Felix book Elf Slayer, however they would not be as described in the Darkblade series.

Wood Elves

Wood Elves would not have dark magic as described in the 8th edition of warhammer. Wood Elves would not be using the Bretonnians as a meat shield. The King of the Wood Elves would not go hunting humans at the start of every spring. Many things written in the 8th edition of Wood Elves would be changed back to older versions of the Wood Elves.


Halflings are more kind than the current warhammer version and less obnoxious, closer to how they are described in the Fantasy Roleplay rulebook excluding roleplaying hint section, so no slang or invention of new words and less rude gestures. They do fight and have skilled archers and possibly crossbow units, crossbows bought from humans and maybe dwarfs.

Halflings are much healthier than human and rarely get sick. Halfling teeth are also much better than human teeth and rarely if ever suffer any problems.


Vampires rarely make mistakes, and have strong memories.

Vampires learn “slower” in everything both magic and fighting, but because they make few mistakes have strong memories then once they learned it they know it. Factor in that they live for a long time and you have a powerful creature indeed.

There would be “a hierarchy of blood” as described in some warhammer books where dragon blood is the most potent for the vampires and the vampire only needs to drain a dragon and the vampire will not need to drink ever again, or at least not for a few thousand years unless damaged, then giant blood and the blood from a single giant could keep the vampire sate for a 100 years, then hippogriff and unicorn blood, then elven and dwarven, then humans and halfling blood, then lizardmen and pegasi blood, then ogre and orc blood, then goblin and skaven blood, then animal blood with its own hierarchy. Not exactly sure about the order could require some tweaking.

The vampires themselves prefer to drink higher quality blood since proportionally it gives the most power for the least amount, but the vampires will when needed drink animal blood as well, larger quantities are of course required and one can not get the same type of power but it is enough to be “alive” and operate at an “ok” capacity.

Weakness would be unlike as is described on page 113 and onwards in the 2nd edition rpg source book nights dark masters a guide to vampires. All vampires suffer from the sun, silver, holy symbols and have no reflections in mirrors. Some of the other more exotic things might apply to specific vampires but the standard problems would there for all. William Kings and Nathan Longs books would be a guide to what affects vampires. However these base line rules would apply to the back story / fluff. When using rulebooks this option of picking 6 weakness can be a nice variation to the standard perception.

If a human eats another humans flesh it does not mean that the human turns into a ghoul. It would have the same effect as in the “real” world.

Ghouls would have some other type of creation backstory.


Orcs don't have to eat nearly as often as humans, but the bigger an orc is the more often he has to eat. An orc that is 1,5 meters tall would need to eat 2 pounds per month to survive of normal ”food”, however an orc can if needed eat trees and grass to survive but he needs far greater quantities. Greenskin feel hunger yes but they can survive longer on less food. An orc who is 2 meters tall needs to eat about 10 pounds of food every 2 to 3 days to survive, not certain about the numbers lots of fine tuning needed, but basically orcs can live on less food, that is how there are so many of them. Same goes for goblins they can eat less than humans and survive longer but proportionally they need to eat more than orcs if their weight were the same as an orc.

The more an orc eats and fights the bigger he grows, the bigger he grows the more he needs to eat.

Orcs and Goblins are created by ”spore” or something like that, for Goblins I would go with the description in the Warhammer novel Skarsnik.


Skaven need less food to survive and function than a human if they weighed the same.

Skaven do not have many of their machines but they do have some type of warpstone lightning cannons which are very unreliable.


At some time in recent history, maybe 20 years ago, a human or elven wizard of great healing ability by some reason arrives in Lustria and because of some big back story he is able to heal the mummified body of Lord Kroak of Itza a little bit, healing not reanimate, and because of the healing plus the magic of the Lizardmen Lord the body will now over the next few thousand of years heal itself completely, unless damaged enough to stop it. Already with this small amount of “life” Lord Kroak Itza is able to take a more active role in the lizardmen society.

At some time in recent history the Slann, possibly Lord Kroak, discover how to spawn other Slann, or the spawning pools are activated by themselves some old directive by the old ones kicking in, however these Slann vary in power most will be weaker of strength than those of the fifth spawning but a few will be stronger one possibly as strong as the Slann of the second spawning. They spawn at a rate of possibly one every few years or maybe slower.

At some time in recent history no more than 150 years ago maybe even just 20 years ago, the Slann got knowledge of a theory that perhaps the Old Ones did not have a final plan as a sculpture how the different races and the world would evolve but instead as a gardener would guide and cultivate them. Also the idea of that possibility the Old Ones are gone and now we who are left must try and make the best of the situation. To fight chaos and its servants is of course one the Lizardmens goal, and they now understand that other races, or at least individual of other races also fight chaos.

Lizardmen do not lie or fabricate excuses as described in the 8th edition of the lizardmen rulebook on page 14.

Maybe the lizardmen have crossbows. Maybe it is the Sarus that use them. In lizardmen society it is the skinks that are the builders and it is not unfathomable that they could build crossbows. Using a cross bow is a four step process, pull back the string, place the bolt, aim and fire. A Sarus should be able to do those 4 things. It could be some back story to it all how Lizardmen and humans somehow both fought a chaos army and at some point a human said something to a skink that was being telepathically controlled by a Slann and that the end result was that the Slann started using crossbows. Or it could of course be that since the old ones did not instruct the Lizardmen to use crossbows then because of that Lizardmen do not use crossbows.


Remember each and every line I write is only a suggestion.

Maybe gunpowder should stay maybe it should go, maybe it should be modified, maybe everything should be exactly at it is.

No gunpowder or steam power, since in my mind it can't be fantasy if there is gunpowder, again nothing is written in stone. For me the “current” edition of warhammer, 8th edition, feels like
the 1700s with magic and for me fantasy is more like the 1500s or earlier.

If gunpowder were to be included it would be more basic than the current style which sometimes feels 2 steps away from an assault rifle. So single shot pistols that need to be refiled with powder and ball after every shot and muskets that also need to be refilled after every shots and basic cannons.


Maybe the current year would be around 1525 not 2525, because the Empire could barely survive 300-400 years without magic, so the war against chaos that was 200 years ago was around 1300 not 2300.

And maybe the time is 2525ish and the Empire indeed did survive for a long time with having some type of magic allowed such as elementalists etc.


The ancient city of Kazavar, known also as Tylos, Til, Tilea, never used slaves or had slaves.

The Old Ones were here between 15000 years before Sigmar until about 5600 years before Sigmar, not like in the newest edition only 200 years. Maybe not 10,000 years but much more than 200.

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Re: If I had enough money to buy Warhammer Fantasy, these are the changes that I would make

Postby Romeo3 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:45 am

Wow, it is so long. =D> =D>

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