There isnt any, its called the European Team Challange.

Isn't that ETC too?

The "Championship" instead of "Challenge" thing is the news at Maelstrom I linked to.

Why not another name for another event?
It's completely different from the ETC idea.

Cheers
Olaf

No the press release says the following:

"The event brings teams of 4 players working together to compete for the title of 2010 Hordes and Warmachine European Team Champions."

If you win an event you are the champions of that event are you not? I can assure you the name of the event is the Hordes & Warmachine European Team Challange.

Olaf, you do realise this is the official Privateer Press Hordes/Warmachine European Club Tournament?
Yes, call it bad timing or even good timing that there's a similar event held in Austria the same year, after all, the more tournaments there are the better.

But.....again

The tournament at Maelstrom is the Privateer Press official European Team Tournament. And so, with the greatest of respect, if people are going to start throwing their toys out the pram because there are 2 tournaments of the same ilk (which again, personally, is not a bad thing at all), then please remember that 1 is officialy recognised, I'm guessing the other not so?

Is there a third event called ETC in Austria?

Why naming it ETC too? As I said, it's totally different from the spirit of the ETC and has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of names out there....

Sorry to rain on the parade.

Cheers
Olaf

You're not talking about the H/WM ETC in Austria at all are you?

Nevertheless, I highly doubt that the organisers will even entertain your wishes. Ah well!!

Must now go through the phone book to get in touch with all Evans' - I wish to be the only one!!

I just spoke to the word "etcetera". He is happy to change his name to "and so on" to avoid confusion over his abbreviation too.

Not sure how this will affect "The King and I" script...

Drama! Jamie re-name to "super fluffy happy-machine" instead.

Olaf, are you going to contact the "Elvish Trampolining Committee" and ask them to rename also, just to avoid confusion?

Team marauders will be sorting a ticket out soon enough, I need to buy a mk2 rulebook first though, and some models!

Cheers
Tom

I do still smile every time I hear the name 'super-fluffy-happy-hammer'. I just get the image of a huge pink bunny hopping around and flattening the occasional innocent bystander with a lump-hammer before continuing on its travels.

But excellent news

Irritation will be solved soon and I recognized that there are two WM&H ETCs this year (one "official" and one "open"). Thought before Austria was a typo (Germany it is for the ETC in Münster this year, the "original") All the best for the three of us!

For the Greater Good!

Cheers
Olaf

(Senior ETC Brand Watchmen)

So you've copyrighted the brand name have you Olaf

I ask because you need to have done so if you want to take this up with Privateer Press, and it'd be beneficial if you want to get on Maelstrom's back about it on a forum who's upkeep they sponsor.

Not copyrighted at all, off course!

It was a joke calling myself "Senior ETC Brand Watchmen"

You can call your (or any) event you like, but the Maelstrom news I pointing at (simply click on the banner above the TWF) is irritating. Pretty sure that wasn't intended. But I was told it will be changed soon. That's it.

Cheers
Olaf

Well, let's hope that Maelstrom aren't so easily irritated.

Having a "stupid" moment.

Maelstrom are running the Hordes and Warmachine European Team Championships.

You're running the 40k and WFB European Team Championships.

What's the problem

I'm pretty sure UEFA and the ICC manage to cope woth both having a "World Cup"... and I don't think it causes the fans too much confusion.

Yes, but what happens if you call it only "European Team Championship" without any system and announce it to be the official one?

As said before, simply to add the system to that news and further links at the shop and anybody is happy and un-irritated

Cheers
Olaf

Ah, I understand. I have the same problem sometimes with English not being my first language either. A lost in translation moment methinks.

What your first post should have been (or even just a pm to someone would have been sufficient).

"Hi guys the link to the H/WM ETC doesn't actually say that it's for H/WM. With many systems now having an ETC' style tournament, to avoid confussion would you be able to link it with the system name.
Many thanks.
Olaf"

An easy mistake to make I'm sure!!

The real ETC hasn't copyrighted anything. That should be obvious. None the less attempting to name your event after a clearly identified brand/tournament/organization which your own event is not in the least a part of, or even remotely resembles, seems rather... rude.

Of course you have every right to do whatever pleases you with your name as long as there is no copyright. I'd think it was a shame though, if copyright had to take over where general politeness and a mutual interest in promoting the toysoldier hobby has sufficed so far. Of course that will eventually happen if some insist on free riding on the goodwill and brand generated by others.

I am unaware if Maelstrom games have copyrighted their name, but if they haven't then I would fully understand if a competitor with the same name entered the market, would irritate them. There is a moral right and legal right, and there is no questioning the legal right as has been mentioned several times. The moral one on the other hand...

Asger

@guesgoch
Jup, that's it.

Cheers
Olaf

@jt-y
Couldn't that be handled without being rude here or via PM?
Simply a small thing, easily solved.

Not intended by Maelstrom, I'm pretty sure, when writing the news/links.

Cheers
Olaf

Olaf, meet JT-Y, enjoy!

Kind Regards

Jamie

You can, without fearing legal steps, start a pub in your hometown named McDonalds. You can not start a burger house named McDonalds.

Drawing in A) legal claims, and B) comparisons to everything else in the whole wide world is exactly what I meant by... rude.
Stick to the point, and the point is that there is a well established "brand" in the wargaming community called the ETC, and even if it isn't legally binding it is still being infringed. I'd happily encourage a WM/H equivalent of it, if it was even remotely close to the ideas behind the ETC, but it isn't. It is commercial, not even European, let alone international, and not really organized by the community. The "brand" is not being used to establish an ETC just for WM/H, it is being used for an entirely different venture with entirely different goals. Different venture, different goals and non European... the name seems rather misplaced to me.

I'll stop commenting for now, I know that all in all the peeps in Maelstrom are reasonable, and I'm sure they are as willing as us to find a solution we can all agree upon.

Asger

PS jt-y have you ever put in voluntary hours to do something for the community you are a part of?

It is open to anyone who'd care to enter though, from where ever they may be from.

There's even some talk of some American's playing.

Don't see the problem personally, there's two types of Warhammer event with Destruction Derby in the title and they seem to get on without one demanding the other change the name. One's even held in Derby.

I don't think this Hordes and Warmachine event is going to dupe your usual crowd or even new Warhammer players in to attending an event in Mansfield that they could mistake for an event in Germany or Austria.

Woah there. Back the f**k up for a moment.

You sent me a PM Olaf.
Careful how you word things, and careful what you choose to imply.

You guys started this foolishness by wishing to make a public show of defending a brand that you wish to claim ownership of.

I'll end it for you: you have no right to the term ''European Team Championships'', and as such you have no right to complain should another party choose to use it.

I'm not being jovial now, I'm being serious:
The next unsolicited PM sent my way by someone seeking to get me on-side for their foolishness will recieve a response that I'd consider rude.

What's the implication here please?

Alright ladies lets calm this down now, play times over.

Any further comments on this matter are to be sent to me or Gary Moore (Dark Alliance) by PM. This stops now.

With all respect Asger, don't go stating things re JTY when potentially you know nothing about him. I'd strongly suggest doing some home work first if this is a serious statement.

If its in jest then I'll apologise now.

JTY has been actively been involved in the hobby community probably for a lot longer than you have been.

Totally agree with Jamie P's comments as well.

you know what's really funny, i think Jamie stated that it's actually called the European Team Challenge, not championship.

it appears that Maelstrom have made a mistake on this news post and that seems to be where the confusion has come from.

I can imagine Jamie changed it specifically for this reason...

Sorry to quote myself, here's the PM I wrote to JT-Y to inform him that JamieP already solve the problem.



Making an offence out of that or whatever, is stupid isn't it?!
I didn't quote what JT-Y replied, simply because that is private.
Normally I didn't quote PM, but in that case I make an exception.
I re-read all my posts here, I think I always tried to be as kind and calmed as possible.

If JT-Y is involved for a very long time in organizing I have no clue why he acts as he did.

Cheers
Olaf

Just drop it please. Problem solved.