ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

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ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Kermit- » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am

Hi,

I live in France and I have both nationalities (french and portuguese).
I would like to create a PORTUGUESE ETC TEAM for next year.

If you are portuguese / if you know some interested portuguese players, please feel free to contact me.
It would be great to realize this project as there is no fantasy portuguese team for years.



@ the chairman / ETC staff members :

Could you please confirm what are the requirements to create a valid ETC National Team?
For exemple for a portuguese team, at least half of the team must have a portuguese ID / and / or live in Portugal, right?
What about players with Portuguese parents but with another nationality / or living in another country?

Thanks,

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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Portador de Tormento » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:34 pm

Deeply interested in this as well @pizzaguardian
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby pizzaguardian » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:35 pm

You can find the nationality requirements detailed in the ETC charter, here.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=69474
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Kermit- » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:04 am

@pizzaguardian :

Is is not very clear for me :

Teams & Representing a country
14. Any country can send one team to represent them. FIFA guidelines are followed for a definition of what a country is, though other sovereign nations who are not recognised by FIFA (eg Monaco) are also allowed to attend. Only one team from each country is allowed entrance in each gaming system (FoW, Fantasy and 40K). How to select a team is left for the individual country to decide and is not something the ETC rules or organization will influence or participate in. In the case of a country sending two teams, then the latest Captain of that country (ie the player who captained that country’s team most recently at the ETC) decides which team is accepted. If there are any grievances over this, a complaint can be sent to the Chairmen in full confidentiality.

In order to participate at the ETC, at least half the team must be citizens of the country they represent. In the vast majority of cases, citizenship is determined by a player’s nationality as shown on their passport. In rare cases (eg players with dual citizenship, or those whose countries don't have their own passports), a player may be eligible to represent more than one country. These players can play for any country they are a citizen of, providing they meet at least one of the following requirements:
a) They, or one or more of their biological parents or grandparents were born in that country.
b) They have resided in that country for a period of at least 2 years after the age of 18.
Teams may be asked to provide proof of nationality for their players, before or during the event. The Chairman may impose sanctions on teams who attend the ETC without meeting the nationality requirement


Does the requirements regarding the parents / grandparents refers to citizens from countries which don't have their own passports / or to all countries?


Thanks for your clarification.

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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby pizzaguardian » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:41 pm

Read the sentence without the paranthesis part as well and it is clear.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby kiri » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:32 pm

pizzaguardian wrote:Read the sentence without the paranthesis part as well and it is clear.


On the 9th age forum, Arthain just answered the contrary and says that you always need passport. Could you please double check? We asked two years ago for team Luxembourg and we get the same answer as the one you're giving now, but with Arthain answer, no more Luxembourg team.

The said subject: http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php? ... post700818
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby orion 76 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:23 pm

Has anyone ever actually checked passports??
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby arthain » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:44 pm

Yes, a couple times in the past two years, to my knowledge.

Besides, that is not the point, since nobody has ever checked residency, and you seem to imply "it really doesn't matter if you fulfill criteria or not, simply pick a nation and use it as your flag of convenience". Which is very wrong.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Portador de Tormento » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:16 pm

My grandfather was Portuguese. From the beautiful town of Braga. But neither me not my mother have Portuguese passport. Pizzaguardian privately answered me it shouldn't be a problem but I'd like to double check.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby kiri » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:36 pm

arthain wrote:Yes, a couple times in the past two years, to my knowledge.

Besides, that is not the point, since nobody has ever checked residency, and you seem to imply "it really doesn't matter if you fulfill criteria or not, simply pick a nation and use it as your flag of convenience". Which is very wrong.



That's not true, once again, I've send proof of residency to a Chairmen, Tompkn and he confirms that Luxembourg was in compliance with the citizenship rules.

So if chairmen change their mind regarding the citizenship rules, please said it clearly.

Beside, we are not "picking a flag" as half' of the team actually live in Luxembourg for years and years...
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby tomepnk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:46 am

Portugal no need to worry. If you want to get a team together just do so. Residency is good enough to fly under a flag. The only thing that will happen if you cannot comply to the passport requirement is that you will not be eligible to cast a vote on official etc matters.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby arthain » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:08 am

Guys, you need to realize that the only thing above the Charter is the CCC.

Charter currently says

In order to participate at the ETC, at least half the team must be citizens of the country they represent. (Emphasis mine)

Residency =/= citizenship

You may still try to participate. This would not be the first time an illegal team partakes on the ETC. But be careful with that, as your walking muddy waters. It's the same as speeding or jaywalking. We all do it, but it's still ilegal, and if you're fined because of it, it's on you.

When I was counseling team Argentina, I explained this very same situation and recommended them to have 4 passports, which were asked by and checked by the Chairmen back then.

So you have 3 options
- Abide by the charter and get 4 passports
- Try to come without 4 passports and try that nobody complains
- Try to convince the CCC (the only body above the charter) of your case (granting an exception or directly changing the charter)
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby kiri » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:21 am

Sorry Arthain but once again I don't read the charter the same way as you. Charter say that citizenship= passeport and that in some case it can be something else. Something else being, among others, 2 years residence.

. Could we please have a definitive and official answer, as two chairmen has to opposite position regarding this rule? Or maybe à captain vote?
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby arthain » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:05 am

Let me explain the charter

citizenship is determined by a player’s nationality as shown on their passport. In rare cases (eg players with dual citizenship, or those whose countries don't have their own passports), a player may be eligible to represent more than one country. These players can play for any country they are a citizen of, providing they meet at least one of the following requirements:

If your nation doesn't have its own passport: You can call the residency/ascendancy clause
If you have dual citizenship: You must call the residency/ascendancy clause

If your nation has a standard way of showing citizenship (or: passport) then you go by the standard rules, which is passport.

For example, after just 2 years residency in Spain you are NOT considered a citizen of Spain and therefore you would not qualify as Spanish player. You need 5-year residency in Spain to get a permanent residency permit (still no citizenship) and 10-year residency to obtain citizenship.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Xso » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:11 am

So, to be clear, the ascendancy clause only works if the country doesn't have it own passport ? If I have a French grand-father but no French passport, I can't be counted as a French player (knowing the fact that France do have passports) ? I understand thatthis clause is only used for countries who doesn't have passports. If you do have a dual citizenship, it means that you allready have the passport (unless the country doesn't have one).

By the way, does countries without passport exist ?
Last edited by Xso on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby kiri » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 am

arthain wrote:Let me explain the charter

citizenship is determined by a player’s nationality as shown on their passport. In rare cases (eg players with dual citizenship, or those whose countries don't have their own passports), a player may be eligible to represent more than one country. These players can play for any country they are a citizen of, providing they meet at least one of the following requirements:

If your nation doesn't have its own passport: You can call the residency/ascendancy clause
If you have dual citizenship: You must call the residency/ascendancy clause

If your nation has a standard way of showing citizenship (or: passport) then you go by the standard rules, which is passport.

For example, after just 2 years residency in Spain you are NOT considered a citizen of Spain and therefore you would not qualify as Spanish player. You need 5-year residency in Spain to get a permanent residency permit (still no citizenship) and 10-year residency to obtain citizenship.
.
I still don't have the same reading as you. Therefore could we have an official answer, as you seem to be the only one reading this rule that way (which include another chairman).

We've been there for 2 years and it has always been clear that none of us get a Luxembourg passport (only residency). So if team Luxembourg can no longer participate, we would like to know it asap.

NB: as far as I know, there is no country without passport, so your reading result to canceled this article.

NB2: I've reopen the former subject, as the discussion should take place in the general section ;)
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Kalerith » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:25 pm

5 years rule apparently also goes for Luxembourg.
https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/luxemb ... itizenship

Personally I would like to see Luxo continue as a team, hopefully this is only a roadbump and not a roadblock for Team Lux.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby kiri » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Kalerith wrote:5 years rule apparently also goes for Luxembourg.
https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/luxemb ... itizenship


Absolutly, but that's not the question :)
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Portador de Tormento » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:56 pm

I played team Luxembourg this year and they were absolute gentlemen. Kudos to all of them. Looking forward to see you guys in Zagreb :D

Anyways, I think all this citizenship rule is utterly absurd. This year, Hungary came with only three Hungarians and some other teams did not fulfill this rule too. The most important thing is we get the biggest amount of teams possible, isn't it?
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby arthain » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Portador de Tormento wrote:I played team Luxembourg this year and they were absolute gentlemen. Kudos to all of them. Looking forward to see you guys in Zagreb :D

Anyways, I think all this citizenship rule is utterly absurd. This year, Hungary came with only three Hungarians and some other teams did not fulfill this rule too. The most important thing is we get the biggest amount of teams possible, isn't it?


Hungary had 4 citizens but suffered a last-minute dropout, which left them at 3. Chair were informed of this and sanctioned this.

Having more teams is nice, but at what cost? Our friends over at FoW have had quite a few problems with "fake teams" under "flag of convenience".
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby el rey » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:51 pm

NB: as far as I know, there is no country without passport, so your reading result to canceled this article.


Some countries like Scotland, England, Wales, Greenland, the Faroe Islands do not have their own passports, as they are not true independent nations, but part of bigger nations. Like the Faroe Islands, would have a Danish passport for example, as it is part of the Danish nation. The UEFA rules for what counts as a country, is not the same as for example the UN.
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Babnik » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:12 am

3 questions to ask ourself...
Is residency is relevant?
Do we want 9th age to grow?
Do we want to behave as Immigration Airport officer?

From my perspective and other gamers, I think team Portugal should roll some dices in Zagreb!
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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Snake1311 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:20 am

Residency isn't relevant, Nationality is. the ETC isn't a club-based event - there are plenty of those throughout the year, some are on par with size!

4+ nationals please. Thats 4 passports.

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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby Kermit- » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Hi.

Portugal will have a valid team in 2018 (4 passeports).
I hope Luxembourg will also have their team there, as they already participate last years and are now part of the ETC countries.

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Re: ETC 2018 - Team Portugal

Postby arthain » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:30 pm

Really glad to count you in!! =D> =D>
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