Penalties

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Babnik
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Re: Penalties

Postby Babnik » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Regarding the warning given during ETC (not penalties as already shown in TK), like in other competition, they must be public.

In the board near referee desk, we should put the name of the players who got a yellow card. I'm sure they'll be more carefull for the rest of the event...
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Re: Penalties

Postby TyphusPL » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:57 pm

In 40k as refs we made a way and wrote down every player who had bullshit or stalling issues. And later announced all that on captains meetings so every team would know who might be problematic. Whatsmore every person accused of some kind "ungentleman" play in terms of time had to fill in time sheets everygame after their first warning. It worked this year for 40k, maybe you should think about something similar for yourselves :)
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Re: Penalties

Postby Manfrand » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:23 pm

I watched Emilie's videos about the match between Vince and Furion. From those it's not clear if someone is slowplaying. The only thing I can see is a strange movement of archers in front of the ghouls. Seems more than 6 inches, but can be a video artifact.


With this I do not mean that they both behaved good or bad, I just say videos are not proof that we all hoped to have.

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Re: Penalties

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:24 pm

And what if a player uses his opponents past behaviour and falsely accuse him?
He can use his behaviour in previous games to turn a situation to his favour, right?

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Re: Penalties

Postby laik » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:30 pm

laik wrote:
laik wrote:I was surprised that before the games you wanted me to confirm to the camera that if any Polish player will cheat he will not come to the ETC next year - looked like you had your opinion made before we've started the match - which is weird because there were never any problems with Polish players in the past.


I'd like someone from team France to answer why it happened - I felt offended with such a question right at the begining.


Still waiting for a response from team France...
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Re: Penalties

Postby Andrzej » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:15 pm

laik wrote:
laik wrote:
laik wrote:I was surprised that before the games you wanted me to confirm to the camera that if any Polish player will cheat he will not come to the ETC next year - looked like you had your opinion made before we've started the match - which is weird because there were never any problems with Polish players in the past.


I'd like someone from team France to answer why it happened - I felt offended with such a question right at the begining.


Still waiting for a response from team France...

Wow. I can't believe this is true, but if it is and the team France really did something like this before games even started, then they should be the ones receiving at least a warning for discrimination and offensive prejudices. Especially, that as noted before, in the past there was not a single case of a polish player cheating on ETC.

I hope that team France will refer to this incident and make an apology to all Polish players, who were forced to such a humiliating declaration in front of a camera.

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Re: Penalties

Postby Babnik » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:30 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:And what if a player uses his opponents past behaviour and falsely accuse him?
He can use his behaviour in previous games to turn a situation to his favour, right?


poop happens... In sport event, warned player are known among other players... For this reason, you do your best to not being warned!
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Re: Penalties

Postby Maelstrom » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:34 pm

Such reputations don't spring out of nowhere. It's obvious that people know to watch Poland carefully. Why do you think that is guys? Occam would have a pretty good answer.
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Re: Penalties

Postby Rince » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Maelstrom wrote:Such reputations don't spring out of nowhere. It's obvious that people know to watch Poland carefully. Why do you think that is guys? Occam would have a pretty good answer.


Can you please explain me why we deserved such reputation, bringing any actual facts to the table instead of stating "the obvious"?
Last edited by Rince on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penalties

Postby Debek » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:52 pm

laik wrote:
laik wrote:
laik wrote:I was surprised that before the games you wanted me to confirm to the camera that if any Polish player will cheat he will not come to the ETC next year - looked like you had your opinion made before we've started the match - which is weird because there were never any problems with Polish players in the past.


I'd like someone from team France to answer why it happened - I felt offended with such a question right at the begining.


Still waiting for a response from team France...

I participated in ETC many times and I have never seen such rude and xenophobic behaviour. As a polish player I'm truly offended. Thank you french team for that. I hope you are proud of yourself. Well played with great and friendly attitude just from beginning. =D> =D> =D>

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Re: Penalties

Postby Ataraxe » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:21 am

Debek wrote:
laik wrote:
laik wrote:
I'd like someone from team France to answer why it happened - I felt offended with such a question right at the begining.


Still waiting for a response from team France...

I participated in ETC many times and I have never seen such rude and xenophobic behaviour. As a polish player I'm truly offended. Thank you french team for that. I hope you are proud of yourself. Well played with great and friendly attitude just from beginning. =D> =D> =D>


Please, don't use words if you don't know the signification.
"Xenophobic", seriously...

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Re: Penalties

Postby Debek » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:07 am

Ataraxe wrote:
Debek wrote:
laik wrote:
Still waiting for a response from team France...

I participated in ETC many times and I have never seen such rude and xenophobic behaviour. As a polish player I'm truly offended. Thank you french team for that. I hope you are proud of yourself. Well played with great and friendly attitude just from beginning. =D> =D> =D>


Please, don't use words if you don't know the signification.
"Xenophobic", seriously...

Please, stop talking down to me. Patronizing tone it is another example of rude behavior. Not from polish side by the way.
When someone comes to polish team and ask to abstain from cheating, because in his/her view it is obvious that polish players always cheat, I call it like I called it. Don't know them, never played against them, but for some reason someone was prejudiced from the start. Call it yourself my friend. Maybe they were just "precautionary" or "wary". Come on! It was offensive and you know it.
For the record I didn't play ETC this year, but I don't see anyone denying that it really happened.

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Re: Penalties

Postby Dim » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:59 am

eggsPR wrote:Dim,

I won't use quotes, but:

70% your fault vs the Danes seems like that a formal team-based warning was warranted.

The word "penalty" was used in the pre-game meeting with the ref... that was the point of the meeting. The meeting was the warning. Your captain and NPC both must've misheard. But I assure you the word penalty was used as that was the point of the meeting.

I had zero clue as to the 6 point penalty and it was never discussed with me. All I asked for was my 20 (which was due to me). I thought the penalty was going to be 20-0 from 18-2, which would've been fair to USA. I did not ask for any additional penalty, nor knew that these additional penalties existed. Had I known I could've gotten 20 between ourselves, the refs would have never known because I'd had gotten what was due to me. However since our game took so darn long, everybody was off to lunch moments after the scores were submitted because the round was over, and the only people in the hall were the refs who asked me about the game. though I recall seeing you seeing me speaking to the refs, then you sprinted out the venue towards the lunch hall to inform the team that I was speaking to the refs. Had your captain sprinted back to resolve the issue, who knows what would've happened, because nobody came back.

I wish I videotaped that game - it was one my best performances in the ETC by getting zombie dragon into that brigand bunker, taking out the general and watching peaseants flee off the table by the dozens. But alas, I don't have it.

Not implying picking slow players is a strategy, but if team USA candidates are taking too long in their games (tactical or not), they won't be considered for the team. Must think, and think fast, but that's just us.

Team USA will bring 8 chess clocks to Croatia. If players on other teams are unsure how to use it - no worries. Our team will have a year to practice pressing the buttons back to other players when they are deciding to decide tabel sides, deploy units, dispel spells, then back to us when DD are rolled, and other things of this nature. Then there will be no issues anymore about slow playing or whether it's intentional or not.


I don't see why the "formal warning" had to be team based. In the rulepack the warnings are supposed to be player based. I could understand a big penalty if I had not finished a game myself again, or even right away against the Danes, if the judges would have thought that I deserved it, which they did not apparently.

It is also difficult to believe that a "formal team warning" had been issued with only one ref knowing about it, since these things are usually collective decisions.

By the way you did not answer this question, so I will stress it more:
1) I was told that the final score was 18-2 including points given away for what you were likely to take in your 6th turn. Did this happen?
2) If yes, did you tell the refs about that?
3) If no, can you tell me what was going to give you 900 more points in the last turn? (pure curiosity)


It is true that I saw you talk to the refs and swiftly informed my captain and NPC. We had to go to lunch since the timing was so tight, and we had to get prepared to play against Poland. I think it was a mistake, but they were not too concerned since
1) They gave you points away for your 6th turn.
2) They did not understand we had taken a "formal team warning" in the first place.
3) The worst scenario we could imagine was you getting 20-0 instead of 18-2.

I would also be very happy to get an explanation from the judges about the incident. What was the rational behind the 6pts penalty + modifying result to 19-1?

Regards,
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Re: Penalties

Postby pizzaguardian » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:06 am

EVERYBODY CALM DOWN!

I am locking the thread for a while , when i unlock it again i really hope we will be done with insults.
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