ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

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ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:22 pm

Ok guys, its 2017 already so we should probably start discussing this year's rule pack. Lets hope its a simple one like last year's, one that didnt involve any comp; just a VPs table, a set of maps with deployment types/secondary objectives, and stating the size of the game.

The Tournament Organizer has sent all captains an email in regards to if we want to play 4500pts (recommended size in T9A BRB) or 5000pts (current voted game size from last year, as 2500=5000 after the doubling of points in v1.2). I guess we should open up a vote??

With maps, we can choose to keep last year's or take a set of fixed 8 from the ones offered by T9A (theres more than 20 I think). This one is going to be trickier to vote. VP table Im guessing we just use the one in the BRB??

Ultimately, I guess we should vote if any comp is needed, although the books already have their in-built comp as most of you will have noticed by now. Lets get the ball rolling.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Bogi Obradovic » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:02 pm

Earlier you mentioned that 9th is balanced for 4500. Will 5000 affect the amount of certain choices per category that can be taken and break the balance?
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby slivek » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 pm

Bogi Obradovic wrote:Earlier you mentioned that 9th is balanced for 4500. Will 5000 affect the amount of certain choices per category that can be taken and break the balance?
Long story short - yes and no.
yes, because balancing was done with 4500 in mind and 5000 was not really tested. Some armies definitely can fit some solutions in 5000 which are not possible in 4500.
no, because it is hard to say if the game is more balanced in 4500 or in 5000 simply because of small dataset in both point sizes. Some communities do play 5000 but any coherent conclusion is unavailable.

Basically it goes like: 4500 is suggested by authors. One can ignore it since players were ignoring some of GW solutions in previous ETC while making own comp. But here I don't think that it would have any basis.

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Grayfox » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:36 pm

Good job starting this process. 4500 or 5000 is a good start. Just as important is vote for random or fixed deployment type and same for secondary objective.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:41 pm

slivek wrote:yes, because balancing was done with 4500 in mind and 5000 was not really tested.
[/quote]

Actually thats not entirely true mate. Two of the 9th Age Balance Team members (my self and the coordinator) took the necessary actions to balance the game at 5000pts as well for v1.3 (5000 was a mess for v1.2, that I admit). You should know this because you are also on the Balance team :P

We made sure most monsters of which you could fit 3 of into a list at 5000 in 1.2 you could only fit 2 of in 1.3... At 5000 my personal opinion is that the game feels more to what we are used to playing. At 4500 its hard to invest much in magic or a bunker if you dont want to leave the rest of your army short. 4500 highly favours MSU extreme lists and lone model spam with multiple small scoring units as well. It just depends on how you like to play this game.

I also feel that at 4500pts with the current meta, many games will be finished in under 2 hours, meaning playing 2 games in one day might be too short. But like Slivek says, theres just not enough data to make good conclusions from and all any of us say is more based on gut feeling and/or personal experiences. If I have a full day to play two games I want to make each one count and hope they last 3hrs each or close to, after all, its a big trip for many and you wanna get as much gaming done as possible I imagine.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Zwaserick » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:48 pm

orion 76 wrote:
slivek wrote:yes, because balancing was done with 4500 in mind and 5000 was not really tested.


Actually thats not entirely true mate. Two of the 9th Age Balance Team members (my self and the coordinator) took the necessary actions to balance the game at 5000pts as well for v1.3 (5000 was a mess for v1.2, that I admit). You should know this because you are also on the Balance team :P

We made sure most monsters of which you could fit 3 of into a list at 5000 in 1.2 you could only fit 2 of in 1.3... At 5000 my personal opinion is that the game feels more to what we are used to playing. At 4500 its hard to invest much in magic or a bunker if you dont want to leave the rest of your army short. 4500 highly favours MSU extreme lists and lone model spam with multiple small scoring units as well. It just depends on how you like to play this game.

I also feel that at 4500pts with the current meta, many games will be finished in under 2 hours, meaning playing 2 games in one day might be too short. But like Slivek says, theres just not enough data to make good conclusions from and all any of us say is more based on gut feeling and/or personal experiences. If I have a full day to play two games I want to make each one count and hope they last 3hrs each or close to, after all, its a big trip for many and you wanna get as much gaming done as possible I imagine.[/quote]

games finished under 2h if there is not a agreed on draw or some exceptional situation i have serious doubts on - at least the tournaments i´ve been to the games take about almost the same time as before with 2500p. The amount of units in the table did not decrease and a lot of units got price-decreases with 1.3, so there is less points in total, but not less models on the table.

Either way games will be faster after a longer period of freeze as just announced, since most players will be used to stats, army special rules and BRB-rules.

Still the game is balanced towards 4.5k, although we had a look on some 5k main-offenders with 1.3 as well. Imo with 5k we are not where we need to be as it still allows tons of abusive stuff, while 4,5k forces you to take tough decisions, when you want to max out certain stuff.

Looking forward to this vote and the results. Since 5k is played rarely i´d wonder if that rather untested (except Spain of course) sice will get a go :) ... at least the Spains would have an advantage, what could make some captains think about voting for common size to have an advantage :) :)

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:09 pm

Yes... huge advantage... Spain has been playing 1.3 at 5k since Christmas... not even a full month (now where is that sarcasm emoticon...). Besides, the ETC is 7 months away still!!

I take it you are Barbarossa on T9A forum?? If so, yet another Balance Team member joins the discussion, lol. :mrgreen:
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Zwaserick » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:23 pm

no mate =D>

it´s me - Frederick :twisted:

ooops ... i´m still posting with the 2016 german captains account ... 8-[

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby mike newman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:45 pm

Are we putting this to an official vote?

Or just aiming to discuss it at length?

Either way team England votes 4500pts for all the reasons listed by fred, who puts if far more eloquently than I can be bothered too
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:20 pm

mike newman wrote:Are we putting this to an official vote?

Or just aiming to discuss it at length?

Either way team England votes 4500pts for all the reasons listed by fred, who puts if far more eloquently than I can be bothered too


Id rather we discuss it and if needed put to a vote. If we can see an overwhealming majority go one way then I dont think a vote will be needed. What we do have to vote on for sure is a set of fixed maps and deployment types/secondary objectives selection.

(btw Mikey, the other guy is not really Frederick, lol... otherwise he would have Team Australia 2017 on his forum signature) :wink:
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Grayfox » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:10 am

Team Norway wants 4500. We want a game as close to rulebook as possible, and as 4500 is written and used as base for VP charter, we think this is the best solution.

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby slivek » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Orion - I'm perfectly aware that 5k was also in mind. I wrote that it was not really tested because by majority it was considered as minor issue ;)

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby AntonNikolov » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:12 pm

Team BG point of view:
We prefer everything to be as close as possible to the rule book - 4500 points/VP tables , etc.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:20 pm

Captain from Team Argentina has asked me to post his team's preference for 5000 (his english is worse than my painting skills...). Afaik only team Australia, Team Argentina, and perhaps Team Spain (awating a response from the community) are in favour of 5k whilst I have been made aware by the Salamanca TO that around 6 or 7 are in favour of 4500. This leaves around 30 teams whose captains havent responded to his email yet. If anyone reads this thread and know who the captain of their country's team is atm, can they please contact them?? Thank you.

Its not just the game size, but also the actual rules pack for this year (at least a set of fixed maps...) that we have to vote on. I know this forum is almost dead and that this year's chairmen seem to be absent from their duties (not having any fantasy reps in that group doenst exactly help our cause), but if we can get some decisions made here then we wont have any misunderstandings during the actual event. Cheers.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Zaanash » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:34 pm

Team Sweden is also in favor of 4500 pts
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Ampy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:39 pm

Team Czech also (heavily) prefers 4500pts.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby theoden » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Team Turkey prefers 4500 points..(I've already sent an e-mail regarding that as well)

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Terminator Captain » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:00 pm

orion 76 wrote:...I know this forum is almost dead and that this year's chairmen seem to be absent from their duties (not having any fantasy reps in that group doenst exactly help our cause), but if we can get some decisions made here then we wont have any misunderstandings during the actual event. Cheers.


Just noticed,

Chairmen are working, not too much about to worry.

For what concerns game system, we recently resolved to officially appoint volunteers / experienced figures to take care of each and every game system. Soon we'll post a in each section (included Fantasy Battle 9th age) concerning that.

Forum issues are also under the spotlight. Probably we'll migrate to another platform.

Fell free to PM me for any kind of problem!

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:33 pm

Ok, so far 12 team captains have expressed some kind of interest in holding a vote to determine game size. When this happens according to the ETC charter we can summon a chairman to hold a vote or alterntively even hold one our selves (I would rather a chairman do it). I suggest we also include the option to vote for the other issues concerning the rules pack for this year (set of maps, etc...). I will contact Marko to see if what options he is considering.

Countries that have expressed an opinion on the matter either via email to the TO or through this thread:


Argentina
Australia
Spain
England
Norway
Turkey
Bulgaria
Singapour
Czech R.
Sweden
Serbia
New Zealand
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby mike newman » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:16 am

Seeing as everyone who has replied on here so far has expressed a desire for 4500 there seems little need for a vote...
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:01 am

mike newman wrote:Seeing as everyone who has replied on here so far has expressed a desire for 4500 there seems little need for a vote...


Ive got the count currently at 5 for 4500 and 3 for 5000 with 2 undecided. This is out of the 12 teams that have replied either here or to the TO via email. Also, there needs to be voting on maps and the like, so even if it ends up being one sided theres no harm in making it one of the questions in the questionnaire.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby pizzaguardian » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:16 am

We can hold a Vote whenever you are ready for it, but it seems like there is still some other issues forming up. So to stay away from several different voting sessions i would suggest forming up all the issues and solving them all at once?
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby mike newman » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:38 pm

orion 76 wrote:
mike newman wrote:Seeing as everyone who has replied on here so far has expressed a desire for 4500 there seems little need for a vote...


Ive got the count currently at 5 for 4500 and 3 for 5000 with 2 undecided. This is out of the 12 teams that have replied either here or to the TO via email. Also, there needs to be voting on maps and the like, so even if it ends up being one sided theres no harm in making it one of the questions in the questionnaire.


Convenient as you hold votes for both Australia and Spain and want 5000 haha

By your own post earlier you said the TO had told you 6 to 7 teams had emailed to aks for 4500. And that to 5 in this thread that makes my count

4500 11 to 12
5000 1+Ivan (counts as 2)
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:21 pm

mike newman wrote:
orion 76 wrote:
mike newman wrote:Seeing as everyone who has replied on here so far has expressed a desire for 4500 there seems little need for a vote...


Ive got the count currently at 5 for 4500 and 3 for 5000 with 2 undecided. This is out of the 12 teams that have replied either here or to the TO via email. Also, there needs to be voting on maps and the like, so even if it ends up being one sided theres no harm in making it one of the questions in the questionnaire.


Convenient as you hold votes for both Australia and Spain and want 5000 haha

By your own post earlier you said the TO had told you 6 to 7 teams had emailed to aks for 4500. And that to 5 in this thread that makes my count

4500 11 to 12
5000 1+Ivan (counts as 2)


I dont get to vote for Australia and/or Spain as I please buddy: for Australia we decided amongst the 3 veterans in the team this year (Akhter, Jamie, and my self), and for Spain all I can do is make the community's preference known here, thats all (there are 40+ teams in Spain this season and the TO for Salamanca has surveyed their captains via Whatsapp, with a vast majority choosing 5k).

I did however miscount and its 7-3, not 5-3... my bad. But yeah... maybe you should get your facts straight next time before you accuse me of voting for 2 countries on my own accord. Oh, and just so you know... I have only been playing 4500 for the last few weeks since Frederick joined Team Australia. :wink:

But anyway, here's the current lowdown regarding the issue (with details, so you dont get lost with wild conspiracy theories by my evil self):


Argentina 5000
Australia 5000
Spain 5000

England 4500
Norway 4500
Turkey 4500
Bulgaria 4500
Singapour 4500
Czech R. 4500
Sweden 4500

Serbia undecided
New Zealand undecided
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Snake1311 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:09 pm

orion 76 wrote:I also feel that at 4500pts with the current meta, many games will be finished in under 2 hours, meaning playing 2 games in one day might be too short.


Good. If the fast players finish under 2 hours, then the slow ones may just get to 6 turns under 3.5

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Slatchman » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:32 pm

Team Wales votes for 4500 points for the same reasons given by Fred and Mikey

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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby mike newman » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:25 am

orion 76 wrote:
mike newman wrote:
orion 76 wrote:
Ive got the count currently at 5 for 4500 and 3 for 5000 with 2 undecided. This is out of the 12 teams that have replied either here or to the TO via email. Also, there needs to be voting on maps and the like, so even if it ends up being one sided theres no harm in making it one of the questions in the questionnaire.


Convenient as you hold votes for both Australia and Spain and want 5000 haha

By your own post earlier you said the TO had told you 6 to 7 teams had emailed to aks for 4500. And that to 5 in this thread that makes my count

4500 11 to 12
5000 1+Ivan (counts as 2)


I dont get to vote for Australia and/or Spain as I please buddy: for Australia we decided amongst the 3 veterans in the team this year (Akhter, Jamie, and my self), and for Spain all I can do is make the community's preference known here, thats all (there are 40+ teams in Spain this season and the TO for Salamanca has surveyed their captains via Whatsapp, with a vast majority choosing 5k).

I did however miscount and its 7-3, not 5-3... my bad. But yeah... maybe you should get your facts straight next time before you accuse me of voting for 2 countries on my own accord. Oh, and just so you know... I have only been playing 4500 for the last few weeks since Frederick joined Team Australia. :wink:

But anyway, here's the current lowdown regarding the issue (with details, so you dont get lost with wild conspiracy theories by my evil self):


Argentina 5000
Australia 5000
Spain 5000

England 4500
Norway 4500
Turkey 4500
Bulgaria 4500
Singapour 4500
Czech R. 4500
Sweden 4500

Serbia undecided
New Zealand undecided



:smt064 You are too easy to wind up my friend :lol:
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby orion 76 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:37 pm

Only on forums or whatsapp group chats tbh... I actually have very thick skin when face to face as Im usually the one to poke at others. Problem here is that I can never tell other people's tones unless there is a plethora of emoticons showing me the way.

Anyway, its 8-3 now as Wales has stated its preference for 4500 also.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby Ddevil » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:30 pm

Team New Zealand votes for 4500pts - everything as close as possible to the rulebook please.
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Re: ETC 2017 Fantasy Battles: 9th Age Rules-Pack

Postby kiri » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:39 pm

Ddevil wrote:Team New Zealand votes for 4500pts - everything as close as possible to the rulebook please.


Same thing for Luxembourg :)
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