MSU HE - KoW - Kings of Dave 4 - vs Abyssal Dwarfs - 05/06

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41spoons
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby 41spoons » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:24 am

Great report and with time to spare!

Looking at the deployment, I think you did what you needed to do. You claimed the more isolated units on the flank and the few support pieces as well as the general. Your opponent did a good job using the terrain to guard his blocks' flanks. Given the deployment, I'm not sure you could have put your units in a place to be able to claim one of the other blocks. The other side of that coin is that he had almost no chance to engage you with either of those blocks unless you wished to engage. This creates a scenario where it comes down to who can claim more points of chaff, small units and war machines which gives you a clear advantage due to your movement superiority and ranged superiority.

Flying nobles are so good at claiming chariots that it is almost unfair so I'm glad you took advantage of that matchup. The mounted noble charging the harpies seemed like quite a long charge and it worked so it's hard for me to argue against it. It is good to remove the harpies from play since none of his other units could fulfill the role that they do, but was there not another way to deal with them without the risk of leaving the noble in the middle of the field unsupported? It did allow your archers the opportunity to deal with other threats which proved very beneficial.

As far as the reaver unit, you made the safe play. The RBT is only a 70pt model, and it didn't look like it had many targets anyway so I probably would have left it alone as you did. Another option with the reavers would be to attempt to isolate the dreadspears and corsairs earlier in the battle, but I'm not sure your forces would have been in a position to capitalize on that separation at that time. Curious to hear what others have to say.

As always, fantastic report!

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby jaaspli » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:24 pm

Thx for a great repport as always. Lover your diagrams and your short, but very consise comments.

As for your opponent ( Im a long term DE player myself ) he has a rather soft list ( compared to the all out mounted and flying circus you see out there ), but still a list wich can be potent. He should have been more careful with Morathi. Lots of points in her ( 375 + 100 for general ) and also the main magic offense and defense. Exposing her to a bolt thrower with no cover inbetween is to risky. Im guessing that saving Morathi alone would bring the close to a draw. Also deploying the RBT deeper is usually better - right at the bord egde ( unless fighting dwarfs without rangers ). Takes you a turn more to get to them. I also aggre with others here that deploying the corsairs on the flank against your army is a mistake. Should have been in the midle - pressing forward from the start to draw firepower. My 5c annyway.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby laribold » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:08 pm

Cracking stuff as usual Swordie.

As for taking out the BIG units with your MSU force, it's easy to see it on the map and comment on it afterwards but sometimes your traps look a little too obvious.

The Great Eagle does a great job in slowing up or preventing a charge, but it seems on occasions that it won't get you the big unit as they will simply not engage with your trap.

Would giving up some bigger target be worth it (say in your T5 in this example)?
I just don't think you'll catch the 'whopper' if your bait is just a 'tiddler'.

Still, a win is a win, but just sad to see such little combat take place...

Keep the reports coming, they're one of the highlights of the forum.
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby RaZeR » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:21 pm

Nice report as always :)
Will definitely have a look at Brighton Warlords, it's not horrendously far for me, so thanks!

In terms of the game, good job taking down Morathi early, she can be a nightmare. He was probably a bit too over-confident with her tbh, especially given that I assume she was most of his swedish score, hence the rest of the list being highly unusual choices!
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Silas7 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:18 pm

Nice one Swordmaster! I thought you had it in the bag, then worried when Larry got The Dumb, then stopped worrying when you killed Morathi!

In the end, those Reavers ended up hurting you. By slowing down the corsairs and dreadspears, you lost time to get into position for all those charges. 14-6 is still a very solid victory. You could have moved a little more aggressively with the infantry units, but again, can't argue with results!
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:59 am

Greetings!

Thanks a lot for fantastic comments! I didn't expect to receive so many, I am really, really happy to see the last report was so interesting. I guess it must be that HE vs DE rivalry as a theme :)

@ 41spoons

It is true that in some games, like this one, it comes down to who can win support war. I got more than my opponent and I also killed his general that was a significant boost. 14-6 is a great result especially when you consider the fact the brackets are quite big and increase at some levels so in order to win 20-0 one really has to table the opponent at very small losses to his army. If I were to get such result on average I would be very happy.

However, if I were to assume that I can only get support units of the enemy then it usually means small 11-9 or 12-8 victory. While the game can be great and I often find the ones with close results very entertaining and interesting, if I want to place well at a tournament I really need to win big. For example, rough estimate of the average score for the player who won is 15-5. While not huge maintaining that average with MSU force is a challenge and in order to meet such requirement I need a way and a plan to get big units and enemy characters. Winning support war has to be a mean to an end rather than a goal in itself.

I tried to recall the way I imagined things could have happened when I declared that charge with a single noble and I remember I simply didn't take into account Dread Spears would flee. I remember when we checked relative positions it happened that my noble was pass their line of sight and actually, after a reform, could have been shielded by the enemy regiment. That of course means nothing against spells so maybe I need to reconsider the equipment and try dragon armor on such characters to be safe.

I think I would still have charged because I decided such attack would have given me more options later. I could have the noble behind enemy lines and if harpies fled I could have moved Dragon Princes to shield him.

Thanks a lot for your kind words, always motivating! :)

@ jaaspli

Thanks! I am glad you like the style as sometimes I wonder if the comments are not too short!

It is true that Alex brought different army than people might be accustomed to but against my small units he had a lot of tools for the job as I tried to explain with his army list description. To Alex defense I have to say we both didn't notice the opening until the shooting phase. It was just during that moment when I was checking the distances that it was revealed that Morathi is actually viable target. I got lucky with hits and wounds, while Alex got unlucky with ward saves. It is true, however, that with such important character one should double check every possibility.

I am wondering, however, if suggestion to deploy Corsairs centrally is not due to a benefit of a hindsight. There is nothing wrong with it, once we saw what happened it is absolutely natural to suggest the otion that looks better. However, Alex could not tell with certainty how I am going to deploy my own forces and he had to commit his units earlier. What is more, moving through the forest with potential to expose the flanks was a trap for an infantry that cannot claim steadfast there. If they were charged by two heavy cavalry from the front that might have been a disaster despite the presence of their characters. As we played with mysterious forests it was also tricky to enter it with such a huge regiment in the case if you rolled venom ticket. It is no fun to roll so many dangerous terrain tests!

@ laribold

Thanks! :)

I totally agree! That is why I often place the eagle merely as a road block and to buy time for other units to get into positions. Of course the question is if I did it well enough this time. I guess not really because while I blocked the enemy I was still to far to mount a successful attack, even from the front.

Yes, giving some more juicy target can be a better idea and I am afraid I will need to ask some units to take one for the team as otherwise the enemy would not get there at all!

Well, I need to work harder to make interesting combats happening! That what makes people entertained after all!

@ RaZeR

No worries! I am sure they will be happy to host people from other places and I will make sure my brother knows you are coming!

I can't imagine what horrors would Morathi bring upon my army! Doombolt alone is a scary spell, even at its basic level. She could have deleted a unit per turn easily. I am glad I had the chance to take her down before she inflicted even more damage.

@ Silas7

Cheers! It is nice to see that battles without much magic can be fun too :)

It is another lesson I guess. I was so used to the fact that reavers perform delaying duties that I didn't consider the fact it may not be the best option in the longer run. Sometimes when the enemy wants to come to you, you just have to be a gentleman and let them :) Such a lack of hospitality was really bad manners on my part!

Having the right balance between the actions to thin down enemy ranks and moving aggressively enough to be in the right spot for the proper charge is still something I need to learn. Sometimes I can do it well, this time it was not timed well.

Cheers!
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby 41spoons » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:39 am

You bring up an interesting topic regarding dealing with characters and big units as an MSU player. MSU is equipped to deal with this; however, 8th makes this more difficult due to steadfast and step up. Ideally, you want to hit the opposing deathstar from two sides (flanks and rear of possible) and kill enough to break steadfast and cause a break test that can reasonably be expected to fail (a test of 5 or less should do the trick).

You need ranks and fast high alpha strike troops to achieve this. LSG and DPs can work in this role, but there are issues:

1. Refused flank deployment and two blocks protecting each other limit options for flanking.

2. Ranked troops and high alpha strike troops have very different movement values so setting up an ideal situation becomes extremely difficult.

We know that MSU has the toolbox to break a deathstar, and in 7th, there was no issue. 8th has given deathstars a very good toolbox to deal with MSU which has left many to abandon MSU since getting 15-5 and 20-0 wins with the new victory point system requires deathstars to be removed completely to the model or no points are gained.

How can we counter these issues? The way I see it, we must either find a way to 1) isolate these deathstars so MSU can do what it does best by blocking or holding up the other blocks in a two to three big block build that is common these days which allows the deathstar to be combo charged and broken 2) or find another way to deal with characters in deathstars and swing break tests in our favor.

1) Isolation: stubborn troops tar-pitting the weaker block could be the way to go. The deathstar must either help the weaker block possibly exposing their flank, or continue on leaving the weaker block to grind out the stubborn troops and break formation. Either option is beneficial. Another possibility is a mounted hero with a crown of command (stubborn). They are expensive, but have a high leadership, very fast and a small frontage for minimum attacks back. They make great tar-pits and may help isolate the main unit that you are trying to get.

2) Character killing and dealing with break tests. Here is the interesting one that could be very fun but unreliable. You have access to a very unique tool that can deal with these issues completely...a loremaster! A loremaster of death would have access to many helpful spells. No explanation necessary that the lore of death offers many ways to get rid of characters. Getting rid of a BSB earlier would be huge. Here is the real winner though: Doom and Darkness! A steadfast unit with a LD 10 lord affected by this spell tests on a 7 with no reroll if you've managed to remove the BSB! Soulblight a target and focus fire with all of your shooting, and you also can remove a lot of models making it a more manageable unit (take away steadfast). The possibilities are endless and with so many scary spells that kill characters or the dreaded purple sun, you can draw out the dispel scroll before you cast the important doom and darkness!

It's not a guarantee of course, but it does offer a lot of solutions to the main problems that you would be dealing with.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:47 am

Hi there!

I just wanted to make sure I follow your idea, did you really mean level 4 Archmage with Lore of Death? Because Loremaster cannot choose his spells. He brings all the signatures with him and that's all.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby 41spoons » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:56 am

In the main rule book under loremaster, it says loremaster does not roll for spells as it knows all spells for its chosen lore (pg 72). Am I reading that wrong or was it FAQ'd? A level 4 archmage would often get the job done as well.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:05 am

That is correct, however, HE Loremaster is totally different breed :) It is a pity GW didn't come up with a more original name to avoid confusion. Basically, HE Loremaster is a lord level character, who is level 2 wizard, has his own characteristics (notably WS6, S4, 3W and 3A although high initiative and good leadership count too) and that does not roll for spells but knows all 8 signature spells from the magic lores in the rulebook.

Because of that HE in order to employ the ideas you are suggesting (and they are very good and worth considering!) need to have level 4 Archmage.

In that situation HE player needs to decide what to take, either the Loremaster or the Archmage (although there are armies out there that use both!).

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby 41spoons » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:18 am

Ah, I learn something new every day! They should rename it to avoid confusion. I can see where it would be tough to choose between the two as there are some great signature spells out there! The level 4 archmage might still be worth a playtest as you will always have a character killer spell to get rid of BSBs or pesky fighty types as well as a leadership debuff, or spells that can help thin ranks (soulblight or purple sun)!

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:25 am

No worries!

I have play tested two Archmages so far (I do not count High Archmage I used for a very long time before the new HE army book) and that was Metal and Heavens. Metal one worked very well but I could not use Heavens to the effect I hoped. Of course I am sure it is my fault as the lore has some great potential.

I must say I was tempted to use new High magic for the sake of using the lore for High Elves as well as Light Lore that has some nice area effect spells that may help MSU army.

Death Lore is a new contender here so I will need to think about it. The "problem" is that the Loremaster is some kind of eccentric Swordmaster who knows how to cast spells so from the pure background point of view he is already very attractive! What is more, I really like his versatility with 8 spells to choose that can be helpful in many situations.

The choice is very hard to make! :)
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Squigkikka » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:32 pm

While I couldn't predict that he'd play so ridiculously sloppy with Morathi (there's no excuse, really :P) I still think the outcome would've been roughly the same. His entire right flank is struggling to do anything of relevance all game, and what's worse, his left flank (the most exposed) seemingly lacks the LD control of a BSB. He lost his Dreadspears to an unfortunate succession of failed LD checks, but on the other hand that's the fruit of his deployment.

I think he definitely should've had LD and BSB more centrally. Corsairs where Darkshards/Harpies are, while keeping Spears and Shards within the LD bubble seems the best option. Also, I'm not sure why he simply didn't join a unit with Morathi- now she's not only safe from your shooting, but also potential spells heading her way from the Loremaster.

I'm glad your Eagle riders got to perform a bit, but playing so defensively while you've got the Golden Crown is a bit silly :P Go get 'em dude! You took advantage of his weak flank and perhaps his assumption he'd start the game. Well done, I'd say! That Earting Rod came in handy too, even though you went from one extreme to the other.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:11 pm

@ Squigkikka

You are being unfair and too harsh about my opponent. He made a mistake, true, but it was not that obvious during the game and it is easy to spot it when you look at the map. During the game there are many situations when you can make a wrong decisions, it is totally different from the point of view of an armchair general. :) I believe we actually had to roll-off to determine if she was in some kind of cover for the purpose of shooting or not.

So let's focus on the fact that there was a mistake to exploit but please, refrain from judging my opponents, ok?

I cannot answer the question about Morathi being alone. It is possible, for example, that Alex didn't have that many practice games with this particular army. Not an excuse but possible explanation.

Had he deploy centrally I would probably use that opportunity to deploy my forces in a double envelopment formation. That would allow me to attack one of the flanks at least because main unit cannot be everywhere as is the case with Morathi, despite her speed.

I guess I need to imprint in my mind that eagle rider is not that fragile as great eagles alone and use him more aggressively.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Squigkikka » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:21 am

When you pay -65 comp and roughly 400p for a model that the entire army is built around, I'll definitely reserve right to call a play sloppy if she dies to bolter shots when she absolutely doesn't have to :P I don't think I'm being an armchair general when I say that! There's a difference between letting an eagle die by mistake and letting ancient Hag-Queen herself die by mistake. Mistakes are human of course, but I'm sure he's more upset at that mistake than I am! He probably wasn't used to Morathi, no. Perhaps he underestimated your capacity for killing her since you didn't pack the usual battery of bolters either.

I'm not saying he should've deployed his entire army centrally- however, the Corsairs had to be the center of his army, wherever he deployed it to provide the LD bubble and to make sure he can go either direction. If left Dreadspears swap with Harpies and Darkshards swap with Corsairs, I think he's got a solid line that'll hold up well! The chariot is tough and itp, so it could probably have stuck around on some flank alone!

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:32 am

I reserve the right to defend my opponents, especially when they are not present on particular forum too! The fact that somebody makes a mistake, due to be careless or not - does not really matter, is important observation. However, my opponent or other readers for that matter may not know you well enough to assume you mean no harm with these comments. And that is just your Goblin nature that forces you to throw rotten tomatoes at people and laugh laud and hard when somebody slips on banana skin :P

So yes, he made a mistake. I explained the context in which that mistake as made, Alex was of course very mad at himself for it. But tell me, dear Squigkikka, how is it going to help to improve somebody's play when you mock them for making a wrong move?

In any case I would appreciate if in the future you would focus on the facts, how they impact the game, how to avoid them later (and you did that) rather than name calling. Leave it for private conversations :)

I hear you now with the formation. I did indeed wrongly assumed you advocated central deployment of the army as a whole. Yes, I can see it now and it is probably better idea. As long as you don't get into the forest with these Corsairs :)

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Squigkikka » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:25 am

Hah! I think rather it's rather in your High Elven nature to take offense at nothing :P I called Morathis death a very sloppy mistake, I'm not entirely sure how that translates to name calling (where did I do that?) and throwing rotten tomatoes!

Her death was a fact of the game, and it probably decided it too. With your Loremaster out of the way and with relatively little shooting, he survival is very likely to have meant a victory for the Druchii.

I don't think the forest is a huge deal! In fact, he probably should enter it with the Darkshards or something to be safe from your archers. Remember, you're not steadfast only if the majority of the unit is in a forest- he could place himself so that 55% of the Corsairs are outside of it, and make sure to only remove losses from the side standing in the forest to keep that majority. His right bolter he blocks off turn 1 by advancing, which also is unfortunate.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:50 am

Now you are just stubborn longbeard. I explained clearly what I see your comment as a wrong approach, provided the context of the game and why such mistake might have happened but no, it is still a sloppy mistake #-o Whatever, mate, comment the way you like. I will defend my opponents when I feel they need to be defended and I will be way more strict about it than I would about the same comment directed at me.

Of course it had significant impact on the game! Morathi deleted entire unit by snapping her fingers arrogantly. Without loremaster's ability to pay back (because his level 2 does not matter much for dispelling) she might have indeed won the game all by herself. But I guess we know that already, no matter how you are going to label that mistake.

You can risk getting into the forest but nobody likes to takes hits from Wildwood (even if it does not hurt big units that much) and nobody likes to take DT test due to poisonous woods. However, I do agree he might have entered the woods once it was established what it is (or what it is not).
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 4 - 6.03

Postby Swordmaster » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:36 am

Game 5 - Blood and Glory - Dan - Orcs and Goblins

Game 5 was Blood and Glory scenario. It was modified in the way that a player received bonus points (400VP) for breaking the opponent but the game continued for 6 turns as normal. If second player broke his opponent too he also received bonus points (200VP). This time I was fighting against Orcs and Goblins led by Black Orc Warboss Dan!

Dan had an army that looked to me as a classic Orcs and Goblins force, 2 big blocks of Orc infantry, small regiment of Night Goblins, support in the form of Wolf Riders and 4 chariots as well as 3 war machines and 2 manglers plus, of course, a nice selection of characters. Here are the details of his army list:

Orcs & Goblins - Army List

Black Orc Warboss, Shield, Armour of Destiny, Axe of Stunty Smashing = 263
Orc Great Shaman, Lvl 4, Talisman of Endurance, Fencers Blades, Ironcurse = 270 - Big Waagh!
Black Orc Big Boss, BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield = 165
Night Goblin Shaman, Ruby Ring = 75 - Little Waagh!
Night Goblin Shaman, Dispel Scroll = 75 - Little Waagh!

34 Orc Boyz, Full Command, Big Un’s, Extra Choppa, Razor Standard = 386
22 Night Goblins, Standard, Musician, 2x Fanatics = 136 Points
5 Wolf Riders , Standard, Musician, Spears, Shields = 80 Points

Wolf Chariot = 50
Wolf Chariot = 50
Boar Chariot = 85
Boar Chariot = 85
23 Black Orcs, Full Command, Shields, Standard of Discipline = 349
Spear Chukka = 35

Doom Diver = 80
Mangler Squig = 65
Mangler Squig = 65
Rock Lobber = 85

Swedish Comp = 14.0

Black Orc Warboss - Very tough leader and very good fighter. His magic weapon makes him S6 with AP rule and with 5A. With 3+/4++ saves he is reasonably protected too. He can quell the animosity so his unit is not going to misbehave. He will add to any combat he is going to join significantly. Both mounted heroes have a chance to wound him though but if they don't slay him outright he may easily chop them down in a single turn of hand to hand.

Orc Great Shaman - main army wizard, with the access to quite nasty spells. He is also well equipped as a combination of T5, WS 10 and 5++ makes him harder to kill than your regular wizard. Some of the spells in the Big Waagh! can also make him quite good in combat. He will most likely be with on of the big blocks making it harder to get him unless the whole unit goes down.

BSB - as his Warboss, he is reasonably protected. His BSB abilities are very important and the army can assume compact formation to benefit from his and General's presence. As a black orc he also adds to combat prowess of a unit he joins and stops animosity giving Dan a nice choice of positioning his characters with either unit of Orcs.

Goblin Shamen - they are mainly there to carry good magic items such as ring and scroll and provide 2 more attempts for channeling. However, spells from Little Waagh! can also be very useful. Not to be underestimated.

34 Orc Boyz - WS4 and S4 (S5 first round of combat) with 2A each and with AP on top of that makes them potent unit too. Their weakness is they don't have much of defense to speak about so they will sustain casualties due to shooting, magic and in close combat too, as their initiative is low. But that's why there are 34 of them. And with the addition of characters they are not easy unit to defeat.

Night Goblins - mainly fanatic system delivery. But their ranks can matter and in fact, they can be used to great effect too. Until the fanatics are released they can control area well.

Wolf Riders - personally I was happy to see just a single unit of them as they can be really annoying with their 4+ save. However, they are still a unit to be taken care of quickly as they are part of the entire support contingent and every piece of it can and will prevent me from mounting a proper charge against big blocks.

Wolf Chariots - very cheap, very fast still very dangerous due to D6+1 impact hits. Fortunately they are also quite fragile so I will try and shoot them down quickly.

Boar Chariots - much harder nut to crack than wolf chariots, slower but still fast enough. They will require much harder counter, mounted nobles being the main weapon against them as they are faster and hit hard enough to destroy them on the charge.

Manglers - very dangerous even if moving at random. This is actually their strength as units cannot flee from them at all. They will stop any advance and as such are my priority to be destroyed. At any cost, even with sacrificing a unit to achieve that goal.

Artillery - while not as potent as some O&G armies muster it is still dangerous also because it is very versatile. My fast units will be assigned a mission to silence them down but getting to them may be a problem as long as fanatics and manglers are not dealt with.

In general, I was facing a very dangerous army with wide range of tools to use against my force and that participates in every phase. It controls movement very well with fanatics, manglers and chariots. It can harm at a distance with magic and artillery. It can fight in combat very well and may not allow me to surround the main regiments either.

My approach would be to destroy manglers as soon as possible. Try to draw and destroy fanatics. Magic missiles and shooting will also be good choice against fast cavalry and chariots. I have many targets to deal with quickly and the fact Blood and Glory has deployment zones closer to each other does not help either.

Usually I would deploy at the very rear of the deployment zone to buy myself more time. However, with artillery capable of inflicting panic checks with a single rock dropped on a unit I wanted to have some chance of survival if that is failed (despite re-rolls). It would be a hard game for sure but the one I was really looking forward to as I knew it would be a very interesting encounter.

Deployment

Image
Deployment of the armies

Image
Both formations in weighted flank and main forces facing each other

Orc and Goblin wizards had the following spells:

Great Shaman - Fists of Gork, The Hand of Gork, 'Ere we go! , Foot of Gork
Shaman - Itchy Nuisance
Shaman - Night Shroud

Surprisingly Outcasts won the roll off and their was the first turn!

Outcasts - Turn 1

Image
Outcasts await their foes

Image
First blood for Elves

Outcasts decided to maintain the position for a while and try to soften the enemy first. The flanks were expanded a little. Then Larry the Loremaster and army shooters aimed at various targets in the enemy army. The only success was killing one of the Manglers. Unfortunately, wolf chariot survived the attack and only single wolf rider fell so no panic check was necessary.

Orcs & Goblins - Turn 1

Image
Cunning Orcs and Goblins move forward

Image
Power of the Waaagh! magic

Entire army of Orcs and Goblins moves forward. Black Orcs loot nearby tower on their way. And then green hell is unleashed. First, Great Shaman invites Gork for some stomping but is modest in his pleas so moody Gork decided to grant his wish. Whole unit of Swordmasters is then splatted flat. Eagle rider who joined them look with the horror in his eyes at the blood stains on his new gown and urged his mount to find him the nearest mountain stream where he could wash his clothes in cold water as his mother thought him. The battle could wait.

Then Great Shaman, encouraged by this success convinced Gork that when you use a leg then the hand should follow. Big green arm reached from the skies and picked the whole mob of Night Goblins who were so inspired with such an honor that as soon as they were put down they released their fanatics to celebrate. Little did they know how well orchestrated it was as nearby Dragon princes had no time to avoid the lunatics and it was a miracle there was even a survivor.

Last but not least the artillery opened fire and more dragon princes, this time from another unit, and more noble elven knights fell.

Outcasts - Turn 2

Image
High Elves assume defensive formation

Image
And keep firing

With fanatics too close to their lines High Elves are forced to divert their attention to them instead. They are soon dead but it means other regiments are not targeted.

Single Dragon Prince charges Wolf Riders who flee but are caught in pursuit. That, however, puts the knight in a very dangerous spot.

On the right flank Reavers take one for the team and sacrifice themselves to remove the mangler. Dragon Princes by pass enemy units to attack artillery but they also lose one of their number in the treacherous forest.

Orcs & Goblins -Turn 2

Image
Orcs and Goblins keep advancing

Image
More Elves die

Support elements of the Orcs and Goblins army attack. Boar Chariot charges lone knight who valiantly receives the charge and even survives it but somehow breaks from combat and flees only to be caught (Edit: I really hate how dice sometimes give you hope and then just betray you for something like failed Ld 8 test :evil: )

Wounded Wolf Chariot on the opposite flanks crushes into Swordmasters inflicting horrendous casualties before it is chopped to pieces.

Finally, Night Goblins overrun bolt thrower crew and are fast enough to escape the attention of the nearby reavers.

Outcasts - Turn 3

Image
Elves move through the gaps on the flanks

Image
Archers and Lions stand shoulder to shoulder

Noble and Swordmasters move through the gap in the flank and try to reach the artillery. Reavers on the other flank avoid wolf chariot and help in destroying orc chariot. The archers focus their fire on Big 'Uns and inflict significant damage (combined with previous head bashing by black orc leaders to maintain control over the unit).

Orcs & Goblins -Turn 3

Image
Orcs are finally close and personal

Image
Elves surrounded

With the aid of Hand of Gork three units of Orcs and Goblins surround Elven leaders and few remaining regiments. Is there a way for them to break from that encirclement?

Swordmasters are hit by a doom diver and die to an Elf but thanks to that single knight remains unscathed and is ready to avenge his fallen companions.

Outcasts - Turn 4

Image
Elves use the openings

Image
for Great Escape!

It was a hard decision to make. White Lions moved to block big Uns and buy time for archers and leaders to avoid Orcs. Great Eagle flew to stop Night Goblins too. Remnants of cavalry moved fast to destroy the artillery as soon as possible.

Orcs & Goblins -Turn 4

Image
Orcs attack again!

Big Uns attack valiant Lions who attempt to assassinate Black Orc BSB but his ward save proves to be dependable and he is only wounded. Lions pay ultimate price especially when Great Shaman turns himself into a beast.

(Edit: I might have made a mistake on the map as I think Dan actually charged against my bolt thrower with his Boar Chariot, sorry!)

Black Orcs reform to block the escape route for archers and Elven BSB.

Wolf Chariot smashed into ranks of Archers and inflicted some damage but the Loremaster made sure it was quickly destroyed.

Goblins could not harm the eagle and it actually held the line all by itself!

Outcasts - Turn 5

Image
Apologies for a blurry picture

Image
BSB joins the Loremaster

Once again Elves try to avoid combat and BSB joins another unit of Archers while Noble rampages through the enemy artillery in the back yard. Magic is unfortunately uneventful.

Orcs & Goblins -Turn 5

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Last push

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Elves manage to escape!

Black orcs charged Archers who withdrew but that put them in the front of the boar chariot which charged too so Archers had to flee through enemy units again. Fortunately for them they were fact enough to avoid all enemies and escaped to safety.

Orcs were greatly disappointed that Elves didn't stood and fight. They decided there is no pointing in chasing them anymore and Orc leaders regrouped their army to go and look for a foe who does not flee.

Summary

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Turn-by-turn summary animation

After-battle thoughts

I would like to congratulate Dan for a very well fought game where he outplayed me and won 12-8 (after composition score modification). I really like how he used chariots as well as movement spell to a great effect. He punched hard turn 1 and I could not recover from that blow. Thanks a lot, Dan! It was a pleasure to play against you and learn from you! =D>

As always I start looking at my deployment and I must say I didn't do a good job. I was too close to the enemy and confined myself to the flank where my opponent could knock out my fast elements which usually are very good at flank attacks. I also didn't give myself enough time to deal with many threats.

After the game I think I should have deployed further back anyway and more centrally. That would have saved me from that great Hand of Gork fanatic delivery.

I also wonder if aiming with ranged attacks against support elements is always a good idea. On one hand things like manglers have to be dealt with these as otherwise they inflict too much damage. And chariots are indeed a problem. However, wolf chariots can be destroyed in combat as they are fragile while Boar Chariots are slow and were away from the front line. Maybe I should have focused on one of the units to thin them down significantly and try to attack them later on in hand to hand? Especially if I managed to play better with my fast troops so that I could use them to counter the chariots.

Eagle rider was an example of an obvious mistake. First of all, I wonder if it was good decision to join Swordmasters in the first place. Second, I should have anticipated the possibility of such attack and he should have been placed on the other side of the unit to be in range of BSB influence.

I was very unhappy with ER2 and the way I didn't use them to any effect. I should have move them better to be able to attack NG when they approached, could have used them for blocking purposes etc. Instead I moved them back and forth for no purpose at all.

Then the biggest question for me is what happened in my Turn 3. During the game I simply assumed I was not in position to attack. Especially when Dan used Hand of Gork to move Big 'Uns to the side as initially they seemed to expose the flank to the archers and I potentially could have charged them with all my 3 units.

However, assuming I didn't make a mistake and Black Orcs didn't include any characters, I could have tried the frontal attack with Archers led by BSB and Lions. BO cannot run. The distance, I think, was not that large. I wondered if that is a good fight for me and it looks that even without augments or hexes I had a good chance to win combat. Even more so the following turn when BO would drop to S4. I assumed they would use two weapons. Then I would have had Loremaster and his units to guard the flank, great eagle to block big uns and reavers to help with chariot or night goblins.

It was of course risky, because I needed both units to attack at the same time but still.

Then Turn 4 I had an opportunity flank charge BO with Archers and 2 characters and Archers from the front. This one looked more risky than the previous one. But maybe again I assumed too quickly that fighting is not an option?

Let me know what do you think!

Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Swordmaster on Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - deployment

Postby Kanadian » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:40 am

Hmmmm...

It is clear that the OnG are set up in a defensive formation, with left flank quite light. Too bad you don't have a unit of DP on it. Also you RBT on the right could have been positioned somewhere better... then again opponents defensive deployment might have not been so obvious.

I would never think to deploy across form a OnG army, but try to brake through on a flank. But I'm usually surprised how well this type of deployment serves you.
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - deployment

Postby Silas7 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:10 pm

I am confidant in Swordmaster's ability to control the left flank and be in position for combo charges by turn 4! You are very lucky your opponent only has one doom diver, those are nightmares for elves.
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - deployment

Postby Squigkikka » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:27 am

I'm not so sure how this game is going to play out. He may only have one doom diver, but that thing will still pick off valuable Dragon Princes with ease. It's accurate and deadly as long as it does not misfire. The single lobba can also pick off the eagle riders, or the bolt throwers. A solid foot of gork will delete a unit, and it it keeps stomping... ouch!

I'd probably give the advantage to the OnG, if it wasn't for the fact that he has placed his Black Orcs behind that tower. I'm having a really hard time determining exactly how it'll impact the game, and what sort of tactical decisions can be made. I get the feeling that it favors the OnG, but I also worry it'll get him into a weird position, or force him to be locked in.

I like his centrally deployed LD and BSB though, he covers most of what he has to (I assume he's in range of the NGs, but it might not be so). That's a refused flank without delaying the combat or attacking.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Swordmaster » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:32 am

Hi guys,

Thanks for comments and sorry to keep you waiting for the full report. I hope you would enjoy it!

@ Kanadian

As you could see this time it didn't serve me well but it is also possible that I didn't use that option properly either.

Also, Dan moved forward turn one and although he won the game thanks to his magic and shooting in terms of collecting points, he clearly wanted to get me in close combat! So not that defensive at all!

@ Silas7

I am really sorry to disappoint you :( I didn't play well enough to use the opportunities I might have and was clearly outplayed.

@ Squigkikka

I cannot reply with certainty but I assumed that Dan was concerned with my shooting and didn't want to expose his elite infantry. Hence, Black Orcs behind and in the tower for 2 turns in a row. It is a good question though if that helped him or slowed him down too much?

I guess your prediction was spot on!

Need to learn from these mistakes and get it right next time :-P
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Silas7 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:48 pm

I did get a little sad, but don't take it too badly!

Taking out the support units first is perfectly fine. Your combo charges can deal with the bigger units. Deploying the bolt throwers further back is always a good idea, they can hit practically anywhere on the table.

You were right about the eagle noble, I wouldn't put him with the swordmasters. The eagle limits their movement as long as he is with them. You could have deployed him on the far left flank, possibly out of range of the doom diver or rock lobba. He can pair with the reavers to set up traps for the chariots. Either keep the units close together inside the BSB/general bubble, or make sure they are 7" apart so they don't cause panic.

Forget ER2, what about ER1? You sacrificed 134 pts to kill 65. Not a good trade! You probably had one or two turns of shooting with the reavers and bolt thrower to take it out. They could have advanced with the dragon princes, giving him two targets to shoot at, and one of them likely wold have made it through to the war machines. The noble did a good job cleaning house!

Round 3 positions were very good.

I think you are right, you should have gone for the charge. Send the white lions in first, then the archers with your Loremaster. If he flees either of those, the reavers charge and you almost certainly catch that unit. The eagle can fly and diver the big uns, lettin the archers reform and back up and take another round shooting the orcs. The night goblins should be too far away to take part. Even without the Loremaster's help (iceshard, earthblood, wildform) you should blow through that unit, and either over run or reform to face oncoming threats.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Squigkikka » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:28 pm

A bit of bad luck there, and he certainly had some solid dice- but it went sort of as expected! I do think killing off the support units is the good way to do it though, especially since they're relatively easy points and OnG sort of need 'em for zone control.

You probably should've deployed a bit further on the flank, maybe... but I don't think that was the main problem, really. His magic and shooting was just that good, and you lost important assets early. Also, OnG has a lot more rubbish drops, which means it's harder to outdeploy them.

Silas7: I think you're looking at the Reavers sacrifice in the wrong way. Did he give 160p for 65p? Nah, he traded 160p for 265p. If he leaves the Mangler up it can bounce into the knights, and you can't afford to take 1-2 more turns of that Doom Diver shooting. I think Swordmaster did the right thing, not gambling on maybe killing off the mangler and instead making sure pressure is put on the WMs.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:54 am

Thanks for your feedback, guys! As always, greatly appreciated!

@ Silas7

Well, it seems we both suffered recent defeats against greenskin menace. I hoped to win that game just for the sake of narrative :)

My idea with noble at the time was to hop between the units and provide him with opportunities to either jump over the enemy line for war machine hunting or even be able to charge some targets on his own. But at the same time I wanted to give him some protection against the shooting. In this particular case the problem was not which unit to join (although it is always important) but how to make sure panic checks are taken care of.

The mangler was a tough decision. I was already punched hard so losing another unit was even more painful. I assumed (and I was wrong as I read the rules for manglers) that the beast has additional -1 penalty to shoot at. So even at short range it would have been 5+ to hit. Maybe not that bad but still. I was wrong though as the rules for manglers state they are always treated as in soft cover (and not skirmish as I thought) so being in the forest makes no difference. In such circumstances I should have moved fast elements around as I did to hunt the war machines and use right archers and bolt thrower to kill the mangler.

However, as Squigkikka said, at a time I decided to sacrifice the unit to make the passage clear and safe. I still lost 2 units that were going for the war machines though.

I would charge with Lions and BSB and his Archers instead but I agree. I was too cautious this time. What is more, BO are ItP so fleeing is not an option for them :) As a side note, I wonder where is that hesitation coming from. It's not that I don't have enough experience. And I keep telling myself I should be more aggressive! :lol:

You are correct, it was a good game despite the loss!

@ Squigkikka

Bad luck can be avoided! I remember the same in our game long time ago. I lost DP's to your doom divers and then 2 units nearby fled off the board! Same story, BSB was too far away to lend the re-roll. Will I ever learn? :D

I think better deployment, i.e. more central, would have helped because I lost a few units to a combination of magic/shooting and chariots attacks as well as fanatics. Had I deployed better than fantastic magic movement would not be enough to release the fanatics in the first place. I would not lose Swordmasters because there would be no chariot charge. And maybe I would have killed that mangler without sacrificing reavers.

It is less about outdeploying the enemy and more about deploying in a more flexible formation on my own.

Yes, as you explain it was my train of thought with the mangler. It was a sacrifice but in the end, the loss of 60-70 points more didn't matter as it helped to get rid of one threat. However, as I explained above, I think another solution was better had I remembered the rules correctly. #-o

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Squigkikka » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:01 am

Even so, knowing it counts as soft cover only, I'd make the same sacrifice since it's a huge gamble to make on your part. What if you miss, and don't kill it? All it needs is 1W left to do maximum damage, after all. Then not only did you waste shooting on it, you have also exposed valuable units to it.

Don't forget that the shooting you didn't have to use on it went elsewhere.

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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Swordmaster » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:08 am

True. I could not finish the wolf chariot for instance. And I do agree, that not sacrificing the unit would have been a huge risk. But it is just an example of a situation where I suffered from the deployment and I kind of suffocated myself on one flank.

Which is a little pity because that would have made for a more interesting game :)
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 5 - 13.03

Postby Swordmaster » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:05 am

Game 6 - Battle Line - Jamie - Lizardmen

In the morning I talked to Jamie about all things Warhammer. We haven't played against each other yet but since Castle Assault 2013 we have been joking it would be great to meet on the battlefield. In fact, Jamie mentioned that he should have grudged me so we could have played game 1. However, somehow it happened we didn't need to as we were paired in game 6!

Jamie usually plays High Elves but this time he brought his Lizardmen. I must admit I don't have a good track record against this army. A year before Chris Cousens smashed me 19-1 with his Tetto-Eko led force and I was determined to use the opportunity and break that "tradition".

Since CanCon 2015 allowed special characters Jamie decided to build his army around Lord Kroak. Here are the details:

Lizardmen - Army List

Lord Kroak - 400
Oldblood, Shield, Glittering Scales, Potion of Speed, Luckstone, Sword of Striking - 196
Scar Veteran, Great Weapon, Light Armor, Cold One, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, The Other Trickster Shard - 160
Skink Priest, level 1, Scroll of Shielding - 80 - Lore of Heavens
Skink Priest, level 1, Cube of Darkness - 95 - Lore of Beasts

34 Saurus Warriors, Spears, Full Command - 404
10 Skink Cohort - 80
10 Skink Skirmishers, blowpipes - 70
10 Skink Skirmishers, blowpipes - 70

6 Cold One Riders, Spears, Full Command - 234
39 Temple Guard, Full Command, Razor Standard - 621

Swedish Comp: 15.4

Let's have a look at each choice as usual:

Lord Kroak - I have never had a chance to play against that character so it was already a challenge to develop a good counter to his abilities on the spot. He has a single spell to cast, The Deliverance of Itza, that looks like designed to kill MSU armies in particular. It deals 2d6 S4 hits to all enemy units in 12", 18" or 24" depending on the casting value. The way that spell was interpreted was that despite the fact it is a direct damage spell it affects all the units in the radius, not only front arc of the model. That makes it even more dangerous. This spell can also be cast more than once per magic phase. I planned to use all my dispel dice to stop that spell but I was aware that my chances depend a lot on winds of magic strength.

Lord Kroak is also very hard to kill. He ignores miscasts on 2+ but gets d6 S6 hits instead. However, his 3++ ward should take care of that. He makes a unit of Temple Guard unbreakable and that is huge as this enormous regiment is very hard to defeat for my units. -1 to hit in close combat and in shooting is just a nice but useful bonus.

I decided that my chance lies in trying to kill as much as possible from other regiments and keep Lord Kroak and his unit diverted and re-directed all the time.

Old Blood - not the most popular option, pedestrian Old Blood is still tough nut to crack. He sports 2+ armor save, with a single re-roll, most opponents will hit him on 5+ and only the most skilled on 4+. He will hit on 2+ or 3+ on the other hand and he will do great against rank and file. He might be a tough opponent for my heroes anyway. If he is in Lord Kroak's unit then he will be even better protected with penalties to hit stacking. So even my heroes would need 6+ to hit him!

He can also jump to Saurus regiment to help them out if needed.

Scar Veteran - One of the typical mounted Lizardmen characters. With Oldblood they can take on any of my units on their own so I will need to pay attention to how to deal with these individual threats too. If they are going to stick with their units (and Scar Veteran can potentially join 3 of them for extra punch) then these regiments will be even harder to defeat. However, Star Lance noble in particular should be able to get this character and Spirit Leach should be helpful too. If he goes alone then he will have to take into account my bolt throwers. Hence I assumed they will stay with units.

Skink Priests - very useful, keep Saurus in line so they don't overrun if no need to, provide very important channeling and act as vessels that means even greater range for that nasty spell. Their own spells can also be very useful indeed. Not to be underestimated.

Saurus Warriors - tough phalanx of these can chew through any of my unit but they are also easier to defeat than Temple Guard. If I can divide both blocks and surround Saurus Warriors from 2-3 sides, then there is a chance I can eventually break them. But I was under no illusion that it will be easy and I knew it would cost me too.

Skinks - 3 support units, very useful as always, very dangerous against light cavalry but fortunately die easily to my shooting and any attacks. I will use any opportunity to kill them so that they don't interfere with the movement phase.

Cold One Riders - very good unit but a lot will depend on who is with them if anybody at all. If hey operate alone then my cavalry has a chance to break them on the charge. If scar vet is with them, the help of any of my heroes will be required. Definitely not to be ignored at all but due to relatively small numbers (at least in comparison to infantry) I had a chance to kill them.

Temple Guard - with Lord Kroak, potentially even all characters, and all the benefits of their presence I think this unit was too much for my Elves. I would love to try and take on it but I would need to attack them from both flanks and grind them with my units losing a few in the process. However, due to that powerful spell that can be cast while being in close combat I was not really safe in hand to hand either. At least that was the interpretation. In any case, I decided I need to stay way from TG and try to kill the rest. With such a huge unit it is doable.

In general, as I have just mentioned my plan was to:
- avoid and block TG
- dispel the Deliverance as a priority with all dice
- try to get as many other units as possible to make up for any casualties suffered

I assumed that if 2d6 will generate average 7 hits that would transfer to 5 wounds per unit. Then, depending on the unit, I may have some 6+ saves or none at all (Dragon Princes and Heroes are an exception) and 5++ ward from MR should also help a little. That means I would need to move fast in order to get some kills as any time the spell goes off I will suffer badly.

Terrain

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The terrain did block lines of sight and as such I think it was more helpful to Lizardmen. The hill in the middle in particular was useful. Ruins in two "corners" were dangerous terrain and some more of this type were on the South too. Some of them might block line of sight occasionally. The forest was a good soft cover while the small pond added some variety and possibility to exploit if I could draw the infantry of the enemy into it.

I think both sides were equally good for my army, with no particularly great options but enough of clear terrain to try and surround the enemy.

Deployment

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Jamie aka Lord Kroak :)

Jamie initially had a very broad smile on his face but I told him he should behave in a more coldblooded way as befitting of his army and the Slann so he assumed proper facial expression. :) He also won the roll off to pick the sides and chose North.

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Deployment after vanguards

Skinks got the following spells:

Skink - Thunderbolt
Skink - Curse

Unsurprisingly Lizardmen won the roll off and had the first turn:

Lizardmen - Turn 1

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Right flank

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Left flank

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Lizardmen move forward

Two phalanxes of brute Saurus warriors moved forward as ordered. Nimble skinks hid behind them or in the forests to avoid the attention of the Elven archers. Lord Kroak was still in his meditative state and didn't harness the winds of magic to his will. That left the skink priests in charge and they used their chance well. One of them called on the power of heavens and powerful thunderbolt stroke Dragon Princes. Two of them were reduced to ash and the abrupt and violent demise of their companions horrified the survivors who simply turned and fled the battle, including the noble who accompanied them.

Not a good start for the Elves!

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Outflanking

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Is it a good idea?

The Elves, probably not fully understanding they may walk into a trap, exercised their typical outflanking maneuver on the right flank, planning to draw attention of a smaller block of saurus and driving it towards the pond where their ranks would not be as solid as they were now.

The magic was stopped but the shooters claimed a few casualties.

Lizardmen - Turn 2

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Deliverance of Itza

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Part One

Lord Kroak finally acknowledged that the Elves may pose some problem and diverted part of his attention to the solution. The loremaster was unable to stop the chain of energy blasts and the casualties among the Elves were horrendous!

Outcasts - Turn 2

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Outflanking continues

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Elves keep advancing

As if oblivious to the fact they were just hit very hard, the Elves continued their advance and outflanking of Lizardmen. The Loremaster even succeeded in winning mental duel with Saurus Scar Veteran and the brute leader fell with his brain fried to the ground.

Lizardmen - Turn 3

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Deliverance of Itza

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Part 2

Since Elves behaved as children to Lord Kroak and didn't hear his warning for the first time, he decided to repeat the punishment so that the lesson is not missed. More energy blasts run a quick succession through Elven lines and it was clear that children of Ulthuan had no army any more.

Outcasts - Turn 3

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The plan has failed

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Withdraw!

With the army in tatters the Elven leaders called for a withdraw. The battle was lost so it was now the question how many of the Elves can still survive. The run against time begun.

Lizardmen - Turn 4

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One more Deliverance for good measure

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Mopping up

Lord Kroak decided to make sure the Elves also remembered the lesson long enough not to try any foolish attempts to disturb his meditations in the future and more Elves died, almost entirely disintegrating the army.

Outcasts - Turn 4

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Elves keep fleeing

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Maybe they can save the battle standard at least!

The Elves run for their lives as fast as possible but the Loremaster managed to cast two protective spells. First, he healed himself a little and then toughened up his warriors in anticipation of an incoming energy blast.

Lizardmen - Turn 5

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Chasing Elven leaders

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No casualties this time!

Temple Guard followed the orders and chased Elven leaders but it seemed they were a little too zealous in that pursuit. Lord Kroak summoned his powers again but this time he was surprised to see some kind of magic resistance working well to protect the very few survivors.

Outcasts - Turn 5

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Changing direction

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Last evade

Elves were always fleet on feet and their quickly changed the direction to evade the enemy. It was clear now that the pursuit is not going to be successful and Lord Kroak decided the children of Ulthuan are punished enough and he can come back to his meditations.
(Edit: I am not sure but it is possible we played full 6 turns but by that time not much happened and there were no extra casualties anyway.)

Summary

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Turn-by-turn summary animation

After-battle thoughts

Ouch! That definitely hurt! Like last year, I got massacred by Lizardmen, although this time of a different kind. I would like to congratulate Jamie for sticking to his plan that worked for him very well! It was good to know he got his first victory that day too! :) Always happy to help friends :D

I also need to apologize for being quite grumpy from turn two, very grumpy from turn 3 and trying to regain my composure by the end of the game. While it may be understandable why I felt unhappy about the beating I was receiving I must fully admit I got what I deserved.

It is easy to assume that it is easy to take 6 dice and cast the most powerful version of a spell that seems to be designed to kill MSU armies. However, I did everything I could to help it work too! Somehow I was naive to think I can be quick enough to claim some enemy units. I played stupid and paid the price. After calculating the points the difference was 1000+ VP into Jamie's favor that translated into 15-5 victory within the brackets we used at that event. Considering my misguided approach, that was quite a good result!

We discussed the alternative with Jamie and we agreed that unfortunately, this time I should have gone full defense. Either sit in one corner or spread the units at the edge so that wherever Lord Kroak intended to go it would not be enough to catch everything. At the same time I could have sent light troops to slow his unit down and use magic and ranged attacks to inflict some damage on the skinks and cavalry to further mitigate the losses.

It was interesting, however, to see that my losses were not bigger than in other games of CanCon, I simply failed to kill much in return!

Last but not least sorry to disappoint as this game was pretty one sided and I failed to provide entertaining report. I know it is a very good example how not to play against Lord Kroak :) If only I could have a rematch and see if I could make it better and more entertaining :D

Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Swordmaster on Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RaZeR
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Re: MSU HE at CanCon 2015 - Game 6 - deployment

Postby RaZeR » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:34 pm

Gotta say I see you struggling with this one tbh mate.

As you've identified yourself, you can't really do much to that temple guard tank, and Kroak will just keep delivering your units to Itza with relative impunity :/

You should be able to get the chaff and maybe the saurus block (if enough of your stuff survives the magic to get into the saurus), but I don't think you'll be able to do that without losing too much to Kroak. I think your best bet is probably to play a defensive game, feed kroak chaff to try to keep him away from your main units, and see what you can pick up with shooting. Although with range 24 on the spell it might be tricky!

Alternatively, direct damage spells can be cast when he's in combat, but they don't hit your units in combat, so you could try getting everything into combat to protect it. Risky strategy though :P

Looking forward to the report!
Ken Groom

Xtapl wrote:How are goblins going to throw a fanatic high enough into the air to hit an eagle?


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