Uncharted Empires discussion

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Nibbles
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Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:56 pm

As the topic says, let's discuss about it here. Right now I'm on my phone, will write a more detailed review later.

The lists seem interesting, can't wait to play with my Varangurs! I've got Herd & Ratkin armies too and seems they have been tweaked since beta lists.

Night Stalkers surprised me with their outer darkiness. Very Cthulhu, much wow.
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Frederique » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:51 pm

Love the book, love the artwork! So nice to hold a proper book in my hands with the armies, instead of just pdf's n stuff.
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:27 am

Nine army lists in the book, costs only 18€/£12.49/$24.99. Absolutely fantastic value for your money. :)

Right, let's delve deeper into the pages a bit. I'll choose Varangurs for now:

Okay, seems there's only one infantry unit which uses 25mm square bases, they're basically like what the Chosen were for WoC except these are actually a functional unit that doesn't break the balance in either direction. They can wield two handed weapons or shields with a hand weapon, almost everything else that's infantry goes on 20mm square bases. Melee heroes seem to either ride something or be on a 25mm square base if infantry, mages go on 20mm square bases.

The generic hordes of barbarians with light armour go on 20mm squares, but it's a bit odd that the basic heavily armoured, "strengthened by the gods" warriors also go on 20mm bases. This means people will have to get tricky with their regiment trays again or put them on multibases if converting a WoC army. Either that, or all of your infantry will be composed of the elitest of the elite which does sound like it'd get boring after a while.

I like the monsters in the list even though there aren't many different kinds of them, stuff like Chaos Spawns have no place in the Varangur army for example. The monsters & monstrous units are basically things that come from the dark, deep places of the world. They aren't like monsters of the Chaos in the Warhammer world which are basically like a rainbow brigade in all their swirling, bubbling differences in themes and mutations(which of course suits that world well thematically, but Mantica is a place where such things are toned down).

Some units can be given gifts of their god, which resemble the Marks that WoC had but give special rules instead of any modifiers. These are quite powerful as some of these rules can't be gained even with a magical artifact, but even the ones that can be reached that way get more synergy as you can now combine several rules instead of getting only one of them.

It's really not a straight up converted list for WoC at all but tries to be its own thing more than anything else. The emphasis is heavily on the various 20mm base infantry, which does have the greatest variety in the list(five of these). Of course, nothing prevents you from doing an all cavalry army either if you have the models, both the heavy & light cavalry are present in the list, along with monstrous cavalry. There aren't any chariots though.

All in all, it's a very low-fantasy, Frazetta-esque take on the concept of marauding horde of barbarians who worship an evil, dark god. I like that a lot. I am quite glad now that I got a bunch of fur-clad axemen on 20mm bases back when I made the deal to swap my Orks for WoC and BoC armies, time to whip some colour into them now. :)
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:03 am

I also did a quick list just now and it seems that just a few regiments of the elite infantry, couple of regiments of heavy cavalry, two troops of hounds and a troop of trolls plus few characters takes my army well beyond 2000 points, even before magic items are added in.

So that aspect of the old WoC is still very much present. :)
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Baragash » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:23 am

Your summary is correct, the list tries to work for WoC players and as a general Barbarian (albeit Evil) list.

I've seen a few people use their Spawn models as Fallen.
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Shyanekh » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:47 pm

I know a few people were unhappy that the Varangur don't have chariots. The easy way around this would be to take some orc chariots as allies, so there's an easy workaround. Spawn can represent fallen or cave trolls if you had a few of them. If you only had one or two, I'd probably re-base them and use them as jabberwocks.

Overall, I'm a fan of the book. The Night-stalkers in particular grabbed my attention straight away as there's just so much on offer for modelers there. The thing I like the most though is that each army has its own feel and flavour. It would be very easy for a book like this to end up as a pale imitation of a Games Workshop product, but I feel the writers avoided this nicely. Naturally you're going to see a lot of GW armies to begin with. That's fine, it gives people a way to use their collections. I'm looking forward to seeing people start using multiple manufacturers to create these armies though.

I'm fairly neutral about the price of book. It's by no means a bad price and I do think the book is worth it. After seeing how much you get in the hardback rules for only £25 though, I can't help but compare the two. If Uncharted Empires cost any more than it did, I'd say it was too expensive. If it cost any less, I'd say it was a steal.

Now, the negatives. Like the main book, there are some editing issues here. For the most part, it's just sentence structure. I felt that a lot of the unit descriptions would be well served by being broken into shorter sentences. That's a personal taste thing. Typos aren't a matter of personal taste though. There are just a few too many for me to ignore.

I feel a little mean picking on the editing, knowing how much time, effort and love went into it. Make no mistake, I think it's a fantastic book, but I couldn't give my honest thoughts without bringing it up.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Frederique » Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:42 pm

Really keen on the halfling list. I like how they are closer to WoW Gnomes than hobbits, like to tinker with technology and copy dwarf inventions! :lol:
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:52 pm

I've seen the typos too but they don't feel that unusual for a first printing of a book. I'm hoping they fix these as they produce more, the market is certainly eating them up like hotcakes!

At least the errors don't affect any of the rules, that was always nasty thing to see in GW books.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby blackfang » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:55 am

Can anyone recommend an online shop with the book that won't fleece me on EU postage?

Mantic chose my country to be the only one in the world they won't ship to, for the lulz.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Time of Madness » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:06 am

Why is there no chatter in regards to the best list in the book! The Trident Realms of Nertica!!! That's right folks you can now have a fishmen army!

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Baragash » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:21 am

A fishmen army with Cthulu Halflings no less!
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Shyanekh » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:00 pm

Time of Madness wrote:Why is there no chatter in regards to the best list in the book! The Trident Realms of Nertica!!! That's right folks you can now have a fishmen army!

Time of Madness


Talk about this army has been quieter than I expected. It seems that most people love the concept of a fishman army though.

Maybe it's because getting the models for it can be a tad tricky? The naiads aren't out yet and miniatures companies tend to only have a handful of fishmen models on offer.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby silashand » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:22 pm

Using UE my Tomb Kings are finally decent on the tabletop. Only complaint, and this seems to be echoed by most players I have spoken to on the KoW FB group, is that chariots in the game are not very good (all chariots, not just the EoD ones). Otherwise it's fun to actually get this army back on the table again after years of gathering dust because GW couldn't make a decent list for them.
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:47 am

I think Elven chariots are pretty decent but that's due to, you know, Elves. That ranged attack of theirs actually does something and the hero is decent in melee.

But chariot units, yeah, they are pretty weak. In my previous tournament I took a frontal charge on my Zombie Horde from a regiment of Herd chariots and I routed the chariots with a single counter charge on my turn. But the Herd player rolled quite poorly, I think he only inflicted 2 or 3 points of damage on my Zombies.

They should be used as flankers and as such, could work better.
Last edited by Nibbles on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby silashand » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:05 am

Flanking would be fine, but the footprint of the unit is too large to make a good one IMO. A regiment of chariots (150x100mm) is larger than a horde of ogres (120x80mm) and the latter dump out a lot more attacks and are more durable. Sure, they are relatively cheap, but honestly I'd rather have the ogres. Chariots really just don't fill any niche in an army if you ask me. Any task they could be bothered to perform can be done better by something else.
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby BrotherKane » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:52 am

I find Goblin King on Chariot to be very useful, but I agree - most actual chariot units are too large and unwieldy to be really powerful.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Davros » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:19 am

The UE book is very good and enables lot of WFB armies to be ported over with ease except for a few units . MY TK are quite good now and I agree with the chariots not being good as well I have over a dozen :( !!

The other lists add more depth and fluff to Mantica and are quite good with the sysytem enableing customised list for your army of choice .
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Jez [Skewtooth] » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:49 am

Chariots do lack punch - I would personally prefer them to have a bit more shock and awe to counteract their large footprint and mediocre speed.

That didn't stop me fielding 9 of them at the clash of kings last year but that was largely due to having them painted rather than an attempt at an optimal army build.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:50 pm

I had my first game using the lists of UE just a couple of days ago, it was Ratkin vs. Salamanders.

We had a 1500 points match and rolled the scenario randomly, it turned out to be "Loot!"

We had absolutely great fun from start to finish, and even though my army was notceably weaker than his I frenziedly managed to claw my way up towards victory and could have won on turn 6 or scored a draw on turn 7, but alas, the dice failed me. The game was mighty bloody though and both of us had only a few units on the table during the last turns.

I noticed that the Ratkin list was subtly nerfed from the beta version, it felt more fair now. There's still potential for abuse if certain units are spammed too much, but this of course depends on the match-up. In friendly games such as ours the balance is easy to find,for example neither of us used the equivalent of a flying dragon lord in our game.

Salamanders have a good list with a wide selection of units for all the various roles, though their strengths seem to lie with strong infantry and monster units. Their cavalry isn't heavy and the equivalent of skink units are quite weak, they seem to be more like cheap objective grabbers than anything else.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Davros » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:19 am

Salamanders area great list with CS1 thru out the entire army . With the fire drake and fire blast of 16 a good flanker or character mount . Not used the gekkoes yet but they could be good bait units or road blockers etc for counter charges .

Speed of 5 and defense 5 isn't to bad for the Primes as i have used them in horde and regiments to form a battleline but that is at 1k and the mage for fireball and inspiring so not too bad !!! Tuff v Ogres though :D
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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Nibbles » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:50 am

I managed to finally give a go to the Varangur yesterday, they felt a lot like WoC, though more reasonable of course.

It was only a small 1k game against The Herd and I lost to two critical double 1's, really. The list I used suffered from lack of versatility, but could have brute forced its way to victory. The army is probably like that on higher levels as well.

Next up: Night Stalkers, with Cthulhu Wars miniatures. :)
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Uncharted Empires discussion

Postby Lostcarpark » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:23 pm

I love the book, and really pleased to see it's not just conversion armies, but we also get trident kingdom and night stalkers.

I played a game with my stepson at the weekend, he played ratkin against my dwarfs, and despite his best efforts to write a spammy list with a horde of shock troops (nasty unit when backed by a bane chanting warlock for siding strength 2) and a demonspawn, it felt like a balanced game, and ended up a close win for me.

It was his first game of KOW, and he commented that he likes it more than WHFB, and is looking forward to more games.

I agree with the above comments about chariots being underpowered, as I'm working on a Celtic themed KOM army that will field them.

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