Movement trays?

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timmy164
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Movement trays?

Postby timmy164 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:52 pm

I'm just considering how to base my old GW orcs for KoW,
Should I completely rebase (potentionaly a lot of work) or can I use movement trays to represent the various formations?

If I choose the movement tray option, should I make them the exact and proper size for the units, or am I at no disadvantage to use a 'traditional' style movement tray that accommodates the Orc std 25 X 25 GW base sizes, thus having a slightly bigger footprint than the recommended size?

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby sithkhan » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:39 pm

Unit sizes are specific and exact in KoW. You can multibase the Orcs if you feel there may be a need to have models removed at some point in time, but the movement trays have to be exact.


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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Gojira » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:47 pm

Movement trays don't have to be exact. You can have a lip and use all your old movement trays.

From the current rulebook:

"If the tray has a little ‘lip’ around the unit (normally up to a couple of millimetres wide), this does not
matter and player should agree to either always ignore the lip when measuring distances (our favourite solution) or to always measure distances from/to it – as long as this is done consistently for all units and both sides, it should not present a problem."

So basically, it's business as usual.
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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:55 am

Multibased units should have exact dimensions though, taken directly from the table provided in the FAQ.

Orcs have the same bases as in Warhammer though so there shouldn't be any issues.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Snake1311 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 pm

Nibbles wrote:Multibased units should have exact dimensions though, taken directly from the table provided in the FAQ.


Completely irrelevant to this topic surely? Especially if the tray doesn't count. You're making it sound as if you can't put units with unit fillers on trays.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Shyanekh » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Personally I would only rebase an existing army onto regiment bases if you had a specific modelling project in mind. Some kind of diorama for example. Otherwise, regular movement trays are fine.

As has been mentioned, orcs have 25mm bases in KoW so you should have no trouble there :)

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:48 pm

Snake1311 wrote:
Nibbles wrote:Multibased units should have exact dimensions though, taken directly from the table provided in the FAQ.


Completely irrelevant to this topic surely? Especially if the tray doesn't count. You're making it sound as if you can't put units with unit fillers on trays.


I wouldn't call it irrelevant, a poster said stuff about multibased units sizes having to be exact, then Gojira told that movement trays don't have to be exact. These things can get confusing, as you demonstrated by moving on to talk about unit fillers. Unit fillers within a regular unit don't form what's called a "multibased unit" in Kings of War.

Multibased unit actually means that there's just a single base for the entire unit, and these should always be of exact sizes. With trays it's easier to fudge things in-game so it doesn't matter as much.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Gojira » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:26 am

I really can't see the problem here. OP was talking about putting his unit onto big base that was the exact footprint for a troop regiment or what ever, or couod he put the individuals into a tray which technically has a bigger footprint. Both are totally fine though.

And you can even put unit filler into that tray if you want. It really is business as usual if you played WFB.
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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:41 pm

Yes, business as usual, unless you start multibasing your units.Then you need to check the chart.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Snake1311 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:47 pm

There is very little difference between multibasing and unit filler as a concept. What you are calling multibasing is just a unit filler that fills 100% of the unit. I imagine most KoW hordes would rarely be "multibased" as they would be two multibased regiments side by side, by your logic can you put those on a tray?

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Gojira » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:49 am

I'm going to put my 'multi based' stuff in trays. It's completely the same shape and size as if they were all on single bases and in a tray.....
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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:07 am

You guys have to realise that you are bringing the dictionary from Warhammer into the world of KoW and this is what's causing the confusion here.

Unit filler that fills 100% of the footprint of the unit is not a "unit filler" in KoW. It's a multibase.

Combining several multibased units into a Horde or a Legion can also be done, either with a movement tray or not(as long as the player ensures it's handled clearly). The game also has clear rules about using movement trays.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Snake1311 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:16 pm

Kings of War is all about bringing Warhammer things over, so you could say we are in the right spirit of things :P

I haven't seen anything about not been allowed to put (single) multibases on trays, as pointless as that would be. I've seen OCD people at WH tournies do that with single models for consistency. *shrug*

The game has clear yet very silly rules about trays, since you can agree with the opponent on whether you measure from the tray or the unit :shock: assuming that no muppet actively pushes for measuring from the tray though, this is a fairly theoretical discussion.

Your units have footprints; those are important.

Your trays are a gaming aid and don't matter for the game itself, much like dice you have on the table aren't terrain.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:14 pm

Multibases need to have exact sizes so that the footprints don't become too large or too small. When a multibase is too small, movement trays can still fix the issue by restoring the correct footprint of the unit, but they can't shrink down oversized multibases. Pym Particles aren't yet a real thing. :(

In my previous KoW tournament, one of my opponents wanted to measure from the trays and I obliged him, as I am accustomed to playing it both ways but he had only ever measured from the trays, so I chose the easiest path here. He also had Beastmen models with 25mm bases in his units where in KoW they ought to be on 20mm bases, which leads to incorrect size for the rear of the unit but luckily these 5mm or 10mm differences weren't an influence on our battle.

Movement trays can alleviate some of the footprint issues when the number of models is reduced within the unit but the rear rank will remain problematic. The only ways to correct this would be to swap the bases or craft a multibase of exact dimensions on top of which a corresponding number of models from the FAQ chart would be placed.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Gojira » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:48 am

All I'm really seeing is 'lets make a distinction between a tray and multibasing even though it makes zero difference in this situation'.

We all know how it's going to work and no one will tell the opponent to feck off if they have their ungor + weird shaped ungor filler in a tray that would also happen to hold 10 individual ungor for their Tribal Warrior troop.

But as a long time fan of pedantry, I'll completely understand if you want to continue.
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Re: Movement trays?

Postby gumbi » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:33 am

We have been discussing this on our forum, with examples -> http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.p ... pic=181391

I am not sure for my guys - some units I can get to work with exact sized trays, others I wont be able to fit enough models in the exact sized trays.

Do you think its too confusing to have infantry in trays, but all other models in exact sized movement bases? Otherwise i have to workout a way to build flat bases of the exact size i can mount my guys on but still play with (using magnets I guess)

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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Gojira » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:39 am

It should be pretty obvious to look at what's on a 'footprint' and what's in a tray. Can't see a problem with that.
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Re: Movement trays?

Postby Nibbles » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:03 am

gumbi wrote:We have been discussing this on our forum, with examples -> http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.p ... pic=181391

I am not sure for my guys - some units I can get to work with exact sized trays, others I wont be able to fit enough models in the exact sized trays.

Do you think its too confusing to have infantry in trays, but all other models in exact sized movement bases? Otherwise i have to workout a way to build flat bases of the exact size i can mount my guys on but still play with (using magnets I guess)


Mm, I see your issue there; not being able to use a blanket ruling of measuring either from the footprint or from the tray, as you have to mix both methods when playing with your army.

Short term solution would be to explain this enough to your opponents to avoid misunderstandings, but I think you could inded fix the situation eventually with flat exact sized magnetised multibases as you mentioned. Then you would not apply any unnecessary extra burden to your opponents anymore. This is, after all, merely a question of how considerate you want to be towards other players.

You don't need to fit the exact number of models on these multibases though, have you checked the chart from the FAQ? It will allow you to have the correct footprint with less models than you'd normally need.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.


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