KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

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KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Choonvoon » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:12 am

Hi,

As the ETC will be deliberating on the adoption of next system for Fantasy battles for ETC 2016, I'd like to hear some feedback on how to make KOW a team event. If there is already a team event, a pointer to the rules pack is welcome please.

What's KOW now (for competitive play):

1) 2000 points - ok

2) Allies allowed - it makes KOW very balanced but for a team event, too much balance kills the match up meta game so I would say No

3) Legendaries - yes

4) Timed turns - for ETC, yes but perhaps 50% more time because of language/translation issues. Event wide simultaneous turns (so we wont need 100's of clocks) ? ie everyone starts and ends at the same time. Perhaps Turns 2-4 need more time.

5) Scenarios - yes

6) Open lists - yes

Team event /ETC

7) 6 man teams - KOW is fairly new so finding 8 players maybe a stretch

8) 3 rounds per day as each game's timing can be controlled via timed turns. If so can ETC be reduced to a 2 day event? - major implications on cost and orga load

9) change to victory conditions as Kow just has win or draw with no differentiation of the size of win. Or possibly add a 3-1-0 (football style) point system with a cap of 20 points per round

10) More precise definition of base sizes - eg 50x75mm - are they allowed as Lrg Cav ? what about the Kdaaii ? Arachnarok ? Soul Grinder ? Should these big beasties come with seperate rules instead ?

11) Faction specific magic items / spells ? Should we add these ? For items, I suggest counter-items that act as a dispel to magic or protection vs shooting or forced rerolls for wounding. This gives a degree of activity for the passive player. (idea from X-Wing -defend vs attacks rolls)

12) Can we add some more depth for the role of the captain ? What about, in every round of games, the captain has 6-8 (based on number of players) cards that he can use for his players eg one reroll, one re-deployment, one vanguard, one dispel (ie stops one magic casting) etc so that he can boost his players - instead the captain is now merely an advisor with little impact on the games. If all turns event wide are simultaneous, this should be easier to implement

13) For the captain, he should be allowed unlimited consultation during the players passive turn.

Many thanks in advance for your comments
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Jez [Skewtooth] » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:49 am

Some quick responses for you.

Choonvoon wrote:4) Timed turns - for ETC, yes but perhaps 50% more time because of language/translation issues. Event wide simultaneous turns (so we wont need 100's of clocks) ? ie everyone starts and ends at the same time. Perhaps Turns 2-4 need more time.


Chess clocks aren't as much of an issue these days as there are plenty of free smart phone apps which fit the bill. I really don't think simultaneous turns is a good idea - some armies play a lot faster than others in different phases of the game and it will mean that people are standing around waiting.

Choonvoon wrote:5) Scenarios - yes


The scenarios are pretty key IMHO - a good KoW army has to be balanced enough to be able to grab objectives as well as kill the enemy.

Choonvoon wrote:8) 3 rounds per day as each game's timing can be controlled via timed turns. If so can ETC be reduced to a 2 day event? - major implications on cost and orga load


3 rounds of 2000 points should be very east to fit in. Not only does the game play quicker but with no casualty removal there is less work required to sort your army out between games.

Choonvoon wrote:9) change to victory conditions as Kow just has win or draw with no differentiation of the size of win. Or possibly add a 3-1-0 (football style) point system with a cap of 20 points per round


I would suggest looking at the scoring system used by the Clash of Kings as that seems to work very well.

Choonvoon wrote:10) More precise definition of base sizes - eg 50x75mm - are they allowed as Lrg Cav ? what about the Kdaaii ? Arachnarok ? Soul Grinder ? Should these big beasties come with seperate rules instead ?


The base sizes are defined pretty well in the rule book. An exemption is given for some models :-

"Exceptional Base Sizes
You may need a wider or deeper base for exceptionally large heroes, monsters or war engines – in such rare cases, use the smallest base that you can fit your model on."

Usually I would suggest that something like large cavalry on 50x75 could be as a horde with just three models instead of 6 - just put them on a 150x100 movement tray. If the ETC feel the need to fiddle with base sizes to allow certain models then I would suggest using the sizes in the book as a minimum as generally a larger base size is a penalty. You would have to be careful to prevent abuses such as people taking oversized units of skulks or orclings to screen their troops.

Choonvoon wrote:11) Faction specific magic items / spells ? Should we add these ? For items, I suggest counter-items that act as a dispel to magic or protection vs shooting or forced rerolls for wounding. This gives a degree of activity for the passive player. (idea from X-Wing -defend vs attacks rolls)


IMHO the items and spells in the book are fine and don't need messing with. I would strongly advise against adding actions which involve the passive player as that will mess with the timed games. Generally in timed games you are using your opponent's turn to plan your next turn's actions anyway so you are quite busy.
Last edited by Jez [Skewtooth] on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Baragash » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:47 am

Some comments that you may or may not find helpful:

4) 45 mins per player is generally the standard for 2k (speaking the same language though!). I don't think timing turns overall works because the clock gets stopped for rules discussions or other things where the passive player might attempt to run the clock down.

8) See 4 above, even with 50% extra I would think 3 rounds per day for 2 days would be no problem.

10) I would think you would only need to cover what is acceptable for models where GW's base size is not the same as the KoW unit entry.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Choonvoon » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Many thanks for your input

Timed matches are a novelty for an ex-wfb player so I agree on no reactive activity on the passive player.

Is there any team event for KoW ? If yes, were there any differences/features involved other than match ups?
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Shyanekh » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:19 am

Hi Choonvoon, I'd recommend posting this on the mantic forum too. There are some experienced players there who don't post here.

I can't offer much myself, I'm a new KoW player and don't have etc experience, but I'd advise against adding new units/spells/items at this moment in time. Since KoW2 is still very new, it probably needs a lot of games to be played with the rules more or less unaltered before adding anything extra. Even a very small change can have an unpredictable ripple effect.

I do, however, suspect you might be right to disallow allies for etc purposes. From my outsider point of view, a large part of the appeal in the etc is the strategy involved in getting good matchups. While KoW is unlikely to be as swingy as Warhammer in this regard, the pure lists do have certain strengths and weaknesses that would make this part of the tournament more interesting.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby heffoman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:19 am

From ETC warhammer forum:
Hi Guys,

I don’t normally venture into this part of the forum, from an ETC perspective I am the Team England 40k Captain.

However I wanted to post up as I work for Mantic Games and I have been speaking to the Chairmen at the ETC and since about opportunities with Kings of War.

I can see you have a number of options open to you, 8th Edition, 9th age, Furion’s Version, a modified Age of Sigmar or possibly Kings of War. What I wanted to say was if you are interested in adopting Kings of War as your system of choice we as Mantic are very willing to work closely with the ETC to create a rules system you guys want.

Kings of War is the game it is, and the core version of our game has just launched as a 2nd edition and our sales have never been better. Really building momentum behind the system which is fantastic. Now for the ETC, if you guys want a Kings of War ETC edition we can do that. As long as the basis for this is the core of Kings of War, we are very happy to work in partnership to create a sustainable game you can enjoy at the competitive level, which is supported by a company who still wants to produce a mass battle, regimented Fantasy System.

I know you have a separate thread where Captains can nominate a proposed system, I suspect you mean Fantasy Captains so I haven’t posted there. But if someone is interesting in nominating Kings of War and if you decide it is the game you want to play we look forward to working with you. :)


While scrolling through the warhammer ETC forum I saw this posted today. It immediately piqued my interest.

I've recently started trying Kings of war as an alternative to Age of Sigmar. While the game is good I feel that its lacking a certain something to push it to that next level to make it an ideal replacement for 8th.

While I've only played an extremely small amount of games and my opinion is somewhat limited I d like to see some of the following implemented if I had a choice:

A random element to the charge distance. Maybe movement +D6. Bring more of a risk/reward aspect to it?

An element of charge reaction. While I know this would probable break one of the core tenants of the game, having your opponent role dice in your turn, it doesn't feel natural that a unit can be charged and not lift a finger. Maybe a stand and shoot reaction or even a fall back d6 action that makes the unit disorganised next turn.

Race specific items and spells. Just to add more character to the game.

An element of panic tests. Again it seems strange that a large unit can be wiped out beside one of your units without any ripple effect. Maybe force an automatic nerve test if a unit is wiped out within x inches?

Anyway just some random musings. Be interested to see what others think on the matter.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Sir Robert » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:44 pm

heffoman wrote:A random element to the charge distance. Maybe movement +D6. Bring more of a risk/reward aspect to it?

An element of charge reaction. While I know this would probable break one of the core tenants of the game, having your opponent role dice in your turn, it doesn't feel natural that a unit can be charged and not lift a finger. Maybe a stand and shoot reaction or even a fall back d6 action that makes the unit disorganised next turn.

Race specific items and spells. Just to add more character to the game.

An element of panic tests. Again it seems strange that a large unit can be wiped out beside one of your units without any ripple effect. Maybe force an automatic nerve test if a unit is wiped out within x inches?


I see this a lot from my fellow former Warhammer players. Honestly, KoW is a very different kind of game and it's never going to be "The New Warhammer". It is its own thing, with its own look and feel on the tabletop. My advice is that you should just start playing the game as-is and see if it holds your interest. From what I've seen the 9th Age stuff should handily fulfill the need for a Warhammer 8th variant.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby heffoman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:07 pm

While I take your point entirely I feel there is a massive opportunity in our hobby for Kings of War at the moment. A chance they more than likely will never get again. There is huge disenfranchised warhammer player base out there at the moment looking for a game.

From business point of view it must be surely tempting to have a go at it.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby DM Crew » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:26 pm

Choonvoon wrote:
4) Timed turns - for ETC, yes but perhaps 50% more time because of language/translation issues. Event wide simultaneous turns (so we wont need 100's of clocks) ? ie everyone starts and ends at the same time. Perhaps Turns 2-4 need more time.

5) Scenarios - yes

8) 3 rounds per day as each game's timing can be controlled via timed turns. If so can ETC be reduced to a 2 day event? - major implications on cost and orga load


For scenarios I could strongly recommned you to playtest it: https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of- ... nt-version
I quess my WHFB experience for scenarios can be relevant for KoW.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Shyanekh » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:30 pm

heffoman wrote:While I take your point entirely I feel there is a massive opportunity in our hobby for Kings of War at the moment. A chance they more than likely will never get again. There is huge disenfranchised warhammer player base out there at the moment looking for a game.

From business point of view it must be surely tempting to have a go at it.


I hear what you're saying, but honestly I think between the support they're offering tournaments/ETC and developing lists to house ex Warhammer players, they're probably doing more than enough already :)

Now that's not to say that there's no room at all for some sort of "Kings of War: Advanced" with more magic, psychology etc. Perhaps at some point we'll see something along those lines, perhaps not. For the time being though I honestly believe there's more than enough to be getting on with as far as company input is concerned.

I also feel that we still need time to settle in. Now I'm not saying "play KoW until you like it" as I feel that's a poor approach to take. I'm referring to the fallout from the "death" of Warhammer. There are still a lot of bruised gamers and a lot of people unsure where to go. Give it time :)

Now it may be that you really can't do without some of the things you mentioned. That's totally understandable and there's nothing to stop you house ruling. I know Hellebore over on the Mantic forum has already come up with an expanded magic system if you fancy a look?

https://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of- ... a-magic-v2

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Choonvoon » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:30 am

After some games and more thought:

a) Unit psychology - not hard to implement and sort of makes sense but it does change the game considerably - nerve test for units within 6 inch of a routed unit. Disordered units no need to test.

b) Unit charge reactions - 8th created a real mess here with double flees and all kinds of weird situations which i think is not needed

c) More magic and more race specific stuff- the v2 Magic looks like good - not too hard to implement

d) The crossover lists with their new rules like Advanced deployment etc.. have deepened the game. From there, perhaps an Advanced Deployment Statute of Gork ? The possibility of adding new units based on playtested new rules is opening up

e) Passive player does nothing - most guys who comment on this have not played on timers. Give them a few rounds on timers and they would be happy to just sit and think.

f) The crossover lists are well written and maintain the "character" of the army well. Just figuring out how to handle so many army combos will give the ETC guys wet dreams. The match up process if anything is going to be even more complex because the balanced lists are also playable in many builds.

g) finally, I am very impressed with the community who play test KoW. For a dyed in the wool WFB player, this is just awesome. Give the ETC guys some time and they will love this feeling of community involvement.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Choonvoon » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:32 am

Is Mantic open to running an International Team event ?

Walking away from ETC should be explored.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Edroulfo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:27 pm

Choonvoon wrote:Is Mantic open to running an International Team event ?

Walking away from ETC should be explored.


You are really wellcomed next August in Greece for sure. As ETC wars ( if ETC community choose to support KoW) or even like a separate Team tournament.
Although, since we are testing almost every day KoW2, we already have some proposals for a team tournament according to ETC stanards ( "run away" rule: a Troops only flee reaction based on Nimble special rule, "Highly concentrated" rule: mages special rule, some new items and 6 Lores of magic, based on interaction between the basic rules and the tactical superiority against different gamestyles like cornerwars, MSU, flyingparties, tap tactics etc. Finally, apart the Magical Lores ( each spell cost a number of pts) , we have as a extra option the "unlimited power" effect, once per game, with some extraordinary actions on the battlefield.
I am really excited with KoW2.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby MillerXL » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:22 pm

Edroulfo wrote:
Choonvoon wrote:Is Mantic open to running an International Team event ?

Walking away from ETC should be explored.


You are really wellcomed next August in Greece for sure. As ETC wars ( if ETC community choose to support KoW) or even like a separate Team tournament.
Although, since we are testing almost every day KoW2, we already have some proposals for a team tournament according to ETC stanards ( "run away" rule: a Troops only flee reaction based on Nimble special rule, "Highly concentrated" rule: mages special rule, some new items and 6 Lores of magic, based on interaction between the basic rules and the tactical superiority against different gamestyles like cornerwars, MSU, flyingparties, tap tactics etc. Finally, apart the Magical Lores ( each spell cost a number of pts) , we have as a extra option the "unlimited power" effect, once per game, with some extraordinary actions on the battlefield.
I am really excited with KoW2.
Cheers
Edroulfo "Asarnil" Espinoza.
Team Greece 2015 captain
Orga member of ETC 2016.


Frankly, it sounds like you are ruining KoW.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Edroulfo » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:58 pm

Proposals is just proposals MillerXL.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Nibbles » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 am

6 lores of magic sounds bad, magic is not intended to be the winning gimmick in this game but a supporting tool instead. Six spells are better for tournament play than 36.

Flee reactions would be out of place too; if you see an overpoweringly strong enemy coming you can retreat backwards on your own turn and Nimble units can turn around completely, using Advance to gain even more distance from the enemy. In this manner, strategic retreats are present in the game and won't take time from the opponents' turn. An actual flee situation turns into a rout more often than not. Cunning fake routs weren't a thing in the rules of FB either since the unit had to test LD in order to rally. They were genuinely fleeing and the distance they fled was random as well, it was not a pre-planned strategic retreat into a specific spot on the battlefield like what would happen with a fake rout. There were just two flee signals the unit could receive, "flee the battle" and "stop fleeing", of which the latter only went through if the general was near enough or the men had enough resolve.

Panic spreading in the ranks would be more appropriate though, this doesn't feel like it'd have as much negative impact on the gameplay as flee reactions. But now that I think about it hard, perhaps it could make some battles too one-sided as it would make the side who starts to charge first even more strong and make low Nerve units lose most of their value as they would get even weaker. Troops could get Wavered before suffering any damage at all and this could block the army from moving and it would be the same kind of mess that the 7th edition O&G army was in, but now for everyone.

Stand & shoot would have its place as a realistic charge response but then again would be another thing that slows down the opponents' turn and strengthens the gunline play style a little bit more. Gunlines are made weaker in this game on purpose as it was one of the worst things in Warhammer Fantasy. We should avoid bringing the worst things from Warhammer Fantasy into KoW.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby The Nick » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:35 pm

So you're saying no rules based on unmodified Nerve values?
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Snake1311 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:58 am

Guys, when making any sort of suggestions, I think its worth keeping in mind the core design principles of the game.

There are no opponent responses during your turn in KoW. Which means charge reactions for example are out.

I've seen those design principles written out somewhere (possibly first few pages in the rulebook?), maybe someone should paste them in here?



I want to throw my hat in about the Micro vs Macro debate. There may be no need to severely complicate the rules - yes, the odd extra unit entry with a unique function and a couple more items are welcome - but since this is a system designed for mass battle games, maybe we are to look at higher point values? After all, if games are faster than WHFB we can run at 3000 points, which considering KoW models work out cheaper pointwise would be armies double the size or more than what we are used to.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Nibbles » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:16 pm

2000 point armies already look like 3000 point armies did in Warhammer, 3k games would require a massive amount of units. That's too much for fast tournament games as moving between the tables and deploying on them would take considerably longer.

The game does not have huge "point sinks" like Warhammer did in the form of 800+ point lords and you can't simply take an elite unit with a high points per model cost and increase models on that since these units are often capped at 10 or 20 models. You'll have to take new units as the army grows in size. An example of this would be how in Warhammer it took the same amount of time to deploy a unit of monstrous cavalry regardless if it had 3(2000p game)or 12 models(3000p game). In KoW you will have three times as many units such as these as the games get bigger. Therefore you'd triple the time spent on deploying these as well.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Choonvoon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:41 pm

2000 points of goblins will need all 6 feet of deployment.

The great thing about Kow is its speed. Rather have 4-5 timed games per day instead of ETC's 2 games per day.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Shyanekh » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:22 pm

For what it's worth one of the official Mantic tournaments (the clash of kings final off the top of my head) runs at 2500pts which could be a happy compromise? They do allow allies though (again, off the top of my head) so that reduces the hassle for goblin players by allowing a more elite contingent.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Hofferber » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:05 am

Nibbles wrote:2000 point armies already look like 3000 point armies did in Warhammer, 3k games would require a massive amount of units. That's too much for fast tournament games as moving between the tables and deploying on them would take considerably longer.

The game does not have huge "point sinks" like Warhammer did in the form of 800+ point lords and you can't simply take an elite unit with a high points per model cost and increase models on that since these units are often capped at 10 or 20 models. You'll have to take new units as the army grows in size. An example of this would be how in Warhammer it took the same amount of time to deploy a unit of monstrous cavalry regardless if it had 3(2000p game)or 12 models(3000p game). In KoW you will have three times as many units such as these as the games get bigger. Therefore you'd triple the time spent on deploying these as well.


Not necessarily. The games have lists 2500 points 7-8 units (regiments or hordes) more heroes, war machines and monsters, around about 15 or 16 units in total. A 3000 point it increases only slightly.
With a large plastic tray changing table is made relatively quickly.

Another thing to consider is that in the timed games, the time you consume deploying your army, substract from your playing time, so if each player has one hour to play the game, this must be kept in mind.
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby blackfang » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:41 am

MillerXL wrote:Frankly, it sounds like you are ruining KoW.


Sounds to me like they really just want Mantic to hold their hand while they play Warhammer.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Darklord » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:42 pm

2000 points works great for KoW as it can be played in around 45 mins per player. (with 10 mins extra for discussion) For larger games 2500 works well and as noted that is what the Clash of Kings will be, allowing 55 mins per player. (plus 10 mins for discussion etc)

I recently played at an event (Battlemasters) which was 4 x 2500 point games in one day, this filled the day nicely and allowed it to be quite contested. I wouldn’t go bigger than that though without dropping the number of games to 3 max and bearing in mind that 3k+ games would require a larger board really, as some armies would then really struggle to fit on 6 x 4 tables.

I expect between 2000 pts and 2500 pts to be the standard going forward. :)

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Snake1311 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:59 pm

The ETC is already down to 2 rounds a day - and this is fairly unlikely to change (although I suppose we could play 9 rounds instead of 6..?).

This is where the people are saying more "depth" warrants being added. I'm not sure whether I agree or not, but at least the points should definitely be set to the maximum that can reasonably be played on a 6x4 table.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Darklord » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:22 pm

Snake1311 wrote:The ETC is already down to 2 rounds a day - and this is fairly unlikely to change (although I suppose we could play 9 rounds instead of 6..?).

This is where the people are saying more "depth" warrants being added. I'm not sure whether I agree or not, but at least the points should definitely be set to the maximum that can reasonably be played on a 6x4 table.


Aha got you! Hmm tricky, KoW is designed to play fast with it's clean rules and lack of rules discussion. It would need substantial changes to make it play slower, and I'm not convinced it would be more fun.

The largest I would suggest comfortably playing on standard table is 2500 points, this would usually take around one and half to two hours with timers, a relaxed game could be up to two and half hours but many people would still finish early.

If more rounds is a possibility that would probably work great. I've played speed 1k games with 15 mins per player but 30 mins each is more standard. I guess something like 9 games of 1600/1800 points with 40 mins per player per game may suit you guys? :)

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Nibbles » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:49 pm

More depth comes with playing more rounds as that allows more scenarios from the book to be played. KoW has very good scenarios that function much better in a competitive environment than those in Warhammer.

These scenarios also help with the balance of the game and should therefore be altered as little as possible.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Joker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:34 am

While scrolling through the warhammer ETC forum I saw this posted today. It immediately piqued my interest.

I've recently started trying Kings of war as an alternative to Age of Sigmar. While the game is good I feel that its lacking a certain something to push it to that next level to make it an ideal replacement for 8th.

While I've only played an extremely small amount of games and my opinion is somewhat limited I d like to see some of the following implemented if I had a choice:

A random element to the charge distance. Maybe movement +D6. Bring more of a risk/reward aspect to it?

An element of charge reaction. While I know this would probable break one of the core tenants of the game, having your opponent role dice in your turn, it doesn't feel natural that a unit can be charged and not lift a finger. Maybe a stand and shoot reaction or even a fall back d6 action that makes the unit disorganised next turn.

Race specific items and spells. Just to add more character to the game.

An element of panic tests. Again it seems strange that a large unit can be wiped out beside one of your units without any ripple effect. Maybe force an automatic nerve test if a unit is wiped out within x inches?

Anyway just some random musings. Be interested to see what others think on the matter.


I don't understand why you want to transform KoW into a WFB new ed. KoW is Kow and, WFB is dead.

For the proposals, I think Choonvoon ideas are good. I prefer closed list, because magic items are (unlike WFB) items for units, not only for heroes. But I understand open lists.

THE QUESTION IS:

How to persuade the community to propose a KoW ETC tournament?

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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Hofferber » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:53 am

Joker wrote:THE QUESTION IS:

How to persuade the community to propose a KoW ETC tournament?


Simply. Invite them to try it. They can use their current minis to play KoW and the rules are free. It's very easy. If the community cannot try it, it's because they wonn't
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Re: KOW ETC ? ideas and proposals

Postby Joker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:32 am

Problem is not to invite KoW community to participate, problem is to persuade actual ETC community (and especially WFB community) to add KoW in the ETC...


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