Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Clockwork » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:03 pm

Lord Marcus wrote:I like fixed charge ranges, which work well with terrain and through-terrain charges.


At the risk of derailing the thread, what makes random charges incompatible with terrain and through-terrain charges?

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:41 am

i did not say it made them incompatible. It just, in my opinion, makes them go smoother with less rule checking.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Clockwork » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:31 am

OK, but how?

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby mohammadurk » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:44 am

Quick Q: Is there, any chance, for fixed charge ranges to be accompanied, in the future, with guessing those ranges and forbidding pre-measuring?
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Frederique » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:44 pm

I asked the same thing, only random ranges. :lol:

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:54 pm

mohammadurk wrote:Quick Q: Is there, any chance, for fixed charge ranges to be accompanied, in the future, with guessing those ranges and forbidding pre-measuring?


nope. pre-measuring is available for any player, at any time. hence fair use.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Sir Robert » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:27 pm

I've got a half dozen games under my belt and am thoroughly enjoying it.

With regard to Inspiring characters: My experience so far is that Inspiring characters allow you to weather the early engagements of the battle when your units are first taking damage. A lot of regiments only need 5 or 7 wounds on them before they're in danger of routing from a slightly above-average Nerve roll by your opponent. Inspiring characters will keep them fighting for another round or two.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:38 pm

mohammadurk wrote:Quick Q: Is there, any chance, for fixed charge ranges to be accompanied, in the future, with guessing those ranges and forbidding pre-measuring?


This is from earlier in the topic: viewtopic.php?p=1549814#p1549814

Bearing in mind that Alessio was lead on at least one edition of WHF, and things like this will have been a conscious choice on his part, it is unlikely that there will be any major changes to "style" choices (by "style" I mean choices that are a matter of preference, as opposed to - how can I put this - rules which don't function correctly).
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby mohammadurk » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:54 am

Baragash wrote:Bearing in mind that Alessio was lead on at least one edition of WHF, and things like this will have been a conscious choice on his part, it is unlikely that there will be any major changes to "style" choices (by "style" I mean choices that are a matter of preference, as opposed to - how can I put this - rules which don't function correctly).


Got it.
Yeah, I remember him fielding his Brettonians in UKGT, back in the early '00s. I was just hoping that he was missing the... Golden Age :wink: , as much as I do. [-o<
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby MillerXL » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:38 pm

*cough* dark age *cough*

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Tanglewood » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:13 pm

I'm a big fan of 8th - in our group we attend maybe 15-18 events a year each, mostly 2 dayers.

Like everyone else, we're looking for something new to jump on. Personally fixed charge range has been the deal breaker in KoW for me. I have nightmares of games where two armies stands an arm length away all game waiting for the other to commit. I like that random charges introduce a risk factor. These small risks are catalyst for a turning point in a game. If you're losing for example, a random charge can lead to enemy failing an easy but crucial charge to seal a game or you completing a desperate, boxcar critical charge to turn the game around. It can potentially turn a game that is almost a foregone conclusion within the first half hour, which would have made the last 2 hours an absolute dredge. On the other side of the coin, if you're winning, it's about mitigating exposures to these risks in your charges when deciding your options and what to do when things don't work out.

These against-the-odds occurrence also provide memorable climax to a game. People remember those times when they snatch victory from the jaw of defeat. They don't remember being systematically destroyed. However, they do need to be kept at very small chances. Too big a chance, you might as well flip a coin to win a game. Or play AoS. They should occur often, providing lots of small highs as you contemplate death-or-glory chances. Collectively between the chance of it happening and the number of occurrence, it should still favour the winning team. Otherwise, the mechanic would just become frustrating.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Boothy » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:19 am

Tanglewood - I would recomend playing a few games. While it is possible for both sides to sit outside charge range and do nothing it doesnt win a game so there is little point.

I really liked 8th as well (personally the random charge range was a little too random for me - I prefered what they had in War of the Ring), but it was still possible for armies to stand outside of charge range not to risk the double 6. I found the double 6 game changers very frustrating rather than exciting, just feels like Im being diced or dicing my opponent.

In the end though its just personal preference, both systems work, and its a shame to have either approach as a complete deal breaker. (Is any game ever completely perfect?)

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:24 am

Each to his own in terms of what they enjoy, but two of those comments are simply not the case.

Tanglewood wrote:I have nightmares of games where two armies stands an arm length away all game waiting for the other to commit.


I don't see how such a thing would ever come about other than by both players selecting mirror match armies with the same Sp for every unit, zero shooting and matching deployment on a board where terrain is set up in a symmetrical way.

Plus a 2k game shouldn't take more than 90min, not 3 hours :wink:
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby The Nick » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:01 pm

Additionally, two armies sitting at arm's reach, never touching is certainly not how any of the games referenced above work.

That is, what you're describing is two fleshy humans sitting outside of a wasteland of murder wherein no single man can survive and daring the other to go through Deathtrap City to get at the other.

Whereas in the games above, even if you risk a small initial disadvantage wherein you have a low chance of immediately losing or losing a small percentage chance of pulling a draw by making the first move, you're gaining a bigger chance to win outrightly later on.

It's not fair to judge KoW or AoS if you don't understand probability theory. In every game mentioned in this thread, it's possible for players to sit back and never commit to the victory (which is WEIRD, because unlike say two real world armies comprised of individuals who just want to get back home to their family, you have two PLAYERS who ostensibly wanted to play the game and have some miniscule comprehension of how to win and must have read through the rulebook, yet by standing back and 'not playing' are acting in each other's mutual worst interests), but that's not a criticism of either of the game systems, but rather of the players you're describing.

To put it another way, these same players could sit back and play chess with no pieces ever crossing the middle line, no pawn movement, and just moving knights around in a perpetual cold war. But that's not evidence that Chess is a broken game.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Nibbles » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:14 am

Blade of the Beast Slayer increases CS to 3 against certain type of units if the hero already has CS. Is this intended or should it increase CS to 2 instead of by 2.

I'm only asking this since CS3 seems to be like "oh Jesus it has CS3" type of a thing.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:40 am

Nibbles wrote:Blade of the Beast Slayer increases CS to 3 against certain type of units if the hero already has CS. Is this intended or should it increase CS to 2 instead of by 2.

I'm only asking this since CS3 seems to be like "oh Jesus it has CS3" type of a thing.


CS(3) is Dragon-level strength so it's not outrageous, some Orc and Ogre characters would become CS(4) as they are CS(2) base, and CS(4) isn't without precedent (or combinations of TC and CS that add to 4), though it is very rare (one or two monsters and Living Legends).

The wording matches the draft notes, so there hasn't been a c&p error or anything :wink:
Last edited by Baragash on Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Nibbles » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:25 am

Ooh, okay, me crapping my pants from seeing these things is the rules working as intended then, good. Carry on, good sir, and thank you.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby MillerXL » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:46 am

CS4 is the maximum necessary, because that reduces De6 to De2.

You could take the Blade of the Beast Slayer on a hero that already has CS2, and then it would really easily hurt big monsters.

Hell, you could put it on a Dragon rider, and then you would have CS5, for whatever that's worth.

There are even a couple characters that have combinations of TC and SC that already add up to 4. So put it on that and get 6 on a non-disordered charge.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Nibbles » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:59 am

Yeah, I am already planning a tournament army and thinking of using a Horde of Werewolves with their CS boosted to 2 with a magic item, and upping this to CS3 with a Necromancer.

I could take two Hordes of Werewolves but don't want to ruin anyone's fun. It's a casual small tournament with only three games in a single day. I'm traveling 557km's there though and taking my best painted army, KoW really deserves all the support here. :)
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Sceleris » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:34 pm

Nibbles wrote:Yeah, I am already planning a tournament army and thinking of using a Horde of Werewolves with their CS boosted to 2 with a magic item, and upping this to CS3 with a Necromancer.

I could take two Hordes of Werewolves but don't want to ruin anyone's fun. It's a casual small tournament with only three games in a single day. I'm traveling 557km's there though and taking my best painted army, KoW really deserves all the support here. :)


Is that the BIG tournament in Bristol at the end of the month?

Have seen souped up werewolves in action and they are nasty.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Sceleris » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:34 pm

Nibbles wrote:Yeah, I am already planning a tournament army and thinking of using a Horde of Werewolves with their CS boosted to 2 with a magic item, and upping this to CS3 with a Necromancer.

I could take two Hordes of Werewolves but don't want to ruin anyone's fun. It's a casual small tournament with only three games in a single day. I'm traveling 557km's there though and taking my best painted army, KoW really deserves all the support here. :)


Is that the BIG tournament in Bristol at the end of the month?

Have seen souped up werewolves in action and they are nasty.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Nibbles » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:16 pm

No, I don't live in GB. It's 3,422.3 km from my town to Bristol, a 37h drive on the E4. I'm not doing that. :)

The tournament I'm going to will likely have only six to ten people but there aren't any other KoW tournaments in my country, yet. There's a cheap bus line though and it won't cost me more than 50€ to travel that 557km there and back again and I can stay at my relatives for the couple of nights.
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Brother Glacius » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:33 pm

I think it would be great if you talked about basing and unit footprint. I think most GW players that come over are going to need some direction when they have units/models that don't translate directly over to a KoW model. For instance, as a Beastmen owner, my first inclination would be to look at the Herd list for a KoW version for my army. However, I have found that Orcs or the new Varangur work out easier due to the amount of 25mm units they have in the army compared to the Herd list.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:57 pm

brother glacius, this is an interesting question.

as a quick response (not much time before work) you could always take your beastmen on 25mm bases, have 4 to a frontage, equaling 100mm and call it a regiment of technically smaller based figures.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby MillerXL » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:11 pm

Because unit footprint is the only thing that matters, and not model footprint, just use the right sized movement tray.

The general rule for tournaments, etc., is that the minimum number of models for your unit should be the number of the lower sized unit +1.

So if a Troop is 10, and a Regiment is 20, then to use a Regiment in a tournament, you will need at least 11 miniatures on the tray.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Nibbles » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:35 am

Indeed, Kings of War is absolutely fantastic in allowing us to use our creativity with the units and models, the conversion & scratch building opportunities are practically limitless compared to those of modern Warhammer! Units are incredibly easy to assemble as only the movement trays truly matter when playing by the rules.

Not that people should start playing with mere movement trays with a single miniature on them to mark the type of the unit, but yes, even this would work within the ruleset of the game. Even empty trays and pieces of paper will work, if one wants to try out the game and some units before buying them.

The Herd is perfectly playable with Beastman miniatures regardless of what bases they have. I never had the energy to go swap my Ungors to 20mm bases so I didn't use any in my games of 8th, but now they are back on the battlefield again. :)
I do respect your opinions even when I do not state so, we are all free to disagree and agree here. And I certainly do not assume that my ideas about the rules would be the only proper ones. We all have our own ways for playing these games and that is fine.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Brother Glacius » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:14 pm

Oh I know. I'm just saying that it isn't the first thing that will come to mind for a lot of players. They are going to look for one to one conversions between the game sets.

Since you guys are basically creating a resource for KoW players, I think having an article or such with examples would help people make that transition over. I've been playing KoW since v1, so I'm all good. :)

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Dwarf Giant » Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:58 pm

A quick question regarding base size. It states that monsters should be based on 50 50 mm size bases. There is also a rule regarding exceptional base sizes. I wish to use the Terrorgeist model as an Undead Dragon but there is no way this will fit on 50 mm x 50 mm. Would this be covered by the exceptional base size rule?

Also would this be an advantage/disadvantage or even allowed in tournament Play?
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Shyanekh » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:16 pm

Yes you can use the terrorgheist as an undead dragon :) It's precisely the kind of model that rule exists for.

A larger base is almost always a disadvantage. While it does slightly increase coverage for inspiring, the flip side is that it's harder to fit into gaps and harder to screen with other units. General rule of thumb is to use the smallest base size (down to the minimum base size prescribed by the rules of course) you can comfortably fit your monster on.

I don't know of any tournaments that would prevent you from using it off the top of my head. If in doubt, it's good practice to ask the TO beforehand though.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Vyktal » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:35 pm

Hello!

I'm personally interested in gettin into KoW competitively, but I'm having trouble understanding the KoW scene and would appreciate clarification.

- how are KoW players ranked in each country?
- Are there "official" competitions you can attend to qualify in order to take part in bigger competitions?
- I understand that KoW is getting interest for ETC and is the main fantasy game for Masters US. How does someone start getting good enough to take part in these competitions?

Thanks


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