Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

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Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:20 pm

Hi guys,

My forum handle is Lord Marcus. I'm one of Mantic's Pathfinders from the North american sector, specifically Florida.

In this capacity, I figured I would throw a thread up for you all to ask any questions you may have about the Kings of War system.

So feel free to post a question, and I'll answer forthwith :)

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Shyanekh » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:52 pm

Hi :)

As you've probably gathered, there's a fair few people coming to KoW from Fantasy. Obviously this is going to leave us with some hangovers from our previous game. Wondered if you had any tips on making the switch? Any common mistakes you've seen ex-Warhammer players making?

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Lord Marcus » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:56 pm

Shyanekh wrote:Hi :)

As you've probably gathered, there's a fair few people coming to KoW from Fantasy. Obviously this is going to leave us with some hangovers from our previous game. Wondered if you had any tips on making the switch? Any common mistakes you've seen ex-Warhammer players making?



I very much understand this issue, having come from a background of WHFB myself. my tips are as follows:

1. Remember characters are not one man death machines for units. they are powerful support units in and of themselves. i found this out using a vampire lord for the first time with my undead.

2. Remember the stat lines represent units, not individual models. Nerve is not wounds, although it may seem like it. I guess it's easier if you've had a taste of some historical rules like i did, but nerve represents the units will to fight on, not how many individual guys are left. hence no removing models (This is also easy to get over, despite the misconception that it is not. it takes a few games to get used to removing units instead of models individually.

3. Furthermore, the turn and combat system will be odd for the first game or so, due to each turn being self contained. specifically i reference the melee combat section, as the opposing player does nothing, which will seem odd for those used to taking armor saves. The way I explain this in my demo's is that by dealing wounds, and thus getting through your toughness value, my warriors blades are going through the armor, finding weak spots, etc, hence no need for an additional saving roll. The ebb and flow of the battle lines is mirrored by the 1" pushback after combat.

4. Maneuver and movement are key. Again, characters are not mega cannons to bull rush in and tear faces off. set up flank and rear charges, and think tactically.

5. finally, do not try timed games the first few times around. get used to the basics of movement, fighting, and unit management before you try a timed game. BUT DO TRY THEM! They add an element of pressure to the game and force you to make tactical decisions on the fly.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby heffoman » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:09 pm

Is there much different in the free download rules to the main rulebook.
Not including the extra spells/items etc and lists just in actual normal play rules?
Or does the rulebook add more in depth rules to the core mechanics of the game?
I was just wondering as if I was going to trial play it I d rather have the full core rules.
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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Lord Marcus » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:13 pm

heffoman wrote:Is there much different in the free download rules to the main rulebook.
Not including the extra spells/items etc and lists just in actual normal play rules?
Or does the rulebook add more in depth rules to the core mechanics of the game?
I was just wondering as if I was going to trial play it I d rather have the full core rules.



The free download is the starter rules and lists. Mantic released this so that the game IS free to TRY, but they had to leave extra bitz like magic items and some units out so that retailers will stock the rulebook.

So yes, some parts like the extra spells, a majority of the magic items, and small parts of the force lists are in the main rulebook, but not the free download.

The rulebook also has the fluff.

You can definitely get a good feel for the game from the trial rules.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Baragash » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 pm

heffoman wrote:Or does the rulebook add more in depth rules to the core mechanics of the game?


The core rules are complete.

Missing: artefacts, most of the scenarios, approx 40% of unit entries.

All the spells are there.
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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Shyanekh » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:45 pm

Thanks Lord Marcus, some good tips there :)

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Lord Marcus » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:22 pm

Baragash wrote:
heffoman wrote:Or does the rulebook add more in depth rules to the core mechanics of the game?


The core rules are complete.

Missing: artefacts, most of the scenarios, approx 40% of unit entries.

All the spells are there.


Thank you for the assist Baragash.

You are welcome shykanesh

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Sir Robert » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:52 pm

I've got tons of rank n' file troops for multiple armies, which means that as soon as I get my hands on the new rulebook I can dive right in. What would be a good points value to start at? I'm tempted to go straight into 2000+ points.

Also, do players generally use a lot of unit upgrades (specifically the magic artifacts)? Does it make sense to try to give every unit have some sort of upgrade or is that something better reserved for one or two elite or otherwise special units?
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Re: KoW AMA

Postby MillerXL » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:40 pm

Life leech.

In a melee, this unit regains one point of
damage it has previously suffered for every
point of damage it deals, up to a maximum
of n.


Under my interpretation...
IF my regiment has suffered 8 points of damage
AND has life leech (1)
AND deals 10 points of damage in a combat
THEN it will regain 1 point of damage and be left with 7 taken.

Is this correct? It seems like garbage compared to Regeneration, though the abilities seem to be priced roughly equally across the lists.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Shyanekh » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:53 pm

@Sir Robert

From what I've heard 2000pts is roughly the standard game size and so would give you the best idea of how the game is. That said, there's nothing wrong with starting smaller just to get a feel for the rules.

Couldn't tell you the best approach for number of magic artefacts. I would probably recommend picking out your units first then divvying up spare points on items. The exception to this would be if you have a firm idea of a particular item combo beforehand.

@MillerXL

Yep, that would be my reading too. It's definitely nowhere near as good as regeneration. However, it's not always easy to get a lot of healing (unless you happen to be playing Basileans) and this gives your combat units a pretty reliable way of recovering a little lost damage as they go in.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Lord Marcus » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:17 pm

MillerXL wrote:Life leech.

In a melee, this unit regains one point of
damage it has previously suffered for every
point of damage it deals, up to a maximum
of n.


Under my interpretation...
IF my regiment has suffered 8 points of damage
AND has life leech (1)
AND deals 10 points of damage in a combat
THEN it will regain 1 point of damage and be left with 7 taken.

Is this correct? It seems like garbage compared to Regeneration, though the abilities seem to be priced roughly equally across the lists.


That is the correct interpretation. It is not meant to be regeneration, but to represent (in the case of the undead who have the most widespread use) the lambent magical energies raising those skeletons who have fallen.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby MillerXL » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:45 pm

What is the point?

How often is that 1 casualty going to matter at all even across a dozen games?

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Jez [Skewtooth] » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:50 pm

MillerXL wrote:What is the point?

How often is that 1 casualty going to matter at all even across a dozen games?


You would be surprised how useful it is, every little helps. Over the course of a game those extra wounds add up.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Lord Marcus » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:35 pm

Jez [Skewtooth] wrote:
MillerXL wrote:What is the point?

How often is that 1 casualty going to matter at all even across a dozen games?


You would be surprised how useful it is, every little helps. Over the course of a game those extra wounds add up.



This is correct. it adds a nice little backup you know you are getting when you get into combat.

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Clockwork » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:16 am

I suppose it depends on how much damage units typically take? If you usually deal 5 or less damage without really concentrating force then I could see the value in regaining one wound. But if it's over 5 then that value diminishes.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Gaz Taylor » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:32 am

Thanks for this Lord Marcus. I've slightly amended the title of this thread to make it easier for new players to see it ;)

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Re: KoW AMA

Postby Swordmaster » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:34 am

Hi Lord Marcus,

Many thanks for helping new players with understanding the game of KoW!

In another topic it was suggested that it is a good idea to have a source of Inspiring per 500 points. Would you be so kind and elaborate on the importance of inspiring characters in the game of KoW?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Gaz Taylor » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:08 am

As we have had a lot of technical/mechanical questions about how the game works, how about a slight change?

1. ) What is the background for the game? Why is X fighting Y?
2. ) What are the future plans for ranges from Mantic? Are there races coming out that are similar to the Warhammer ones or are we seeing something different?

Cheers

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:59 am

I'll address 2) because I can do it without looking anything up.

The primary future plan is to fill in gaps in existing army lists. There are two new army lists coming out alongside the not-GW lists (actually all these lists are designed to allow usage of a variety of interesting models from many manufacturers, but let's be realistic about the primary use of the non-new ones :wink: ) - those armies have not been revealed to the public yet.

In terms of model production for these not-GW armies, well GW culling WHF has significantly increased the chances of Mantic bringing out models that they wouldn't have made otherwise. In general Mantic is taking a pragmatic view about which models it addresses and whether it can produce models that can compete with what is already out there. For the two new armies I have no idea about the model plans.

Beyond that, we have two further armies which have been announced: Ophidians (good or neutral - I forget - humans that use necromancy) and Northern Alliance (a mixture of good-aligned races with an ice/snow theme). There will also be the re-release of the Twilight Kin once the fluff and range have been over-hauled (in the meantime an updated PDF will be freely available).

There's also plans for a worldwide campaign and a campaign/siege/maybe other stuff supplement, which hopefully will include a modular plastic fantasy scenery release (I know Ronnie is keen to do it and believes it can be done, I have no idea on how soon it might happen - for the record, any implied timing is wishful thinking on my part :wink: ).

And there's a Historical set of lists planned for release in the near future, which won't be supported by models...........directly :whistle: . We hope this will be balanced against the fantasy army lists but I'm not aware that decision has been made.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:24 pm

I am going to address the current questions in chronological order:

@ clockwork: it depends. when the game comes down to contesting an objective, and your unit lifeleeches that one wound and then passes it's nerve check and stays around, it can win or tie the game for you. Most special rules are situational. it is how you adapt and create those situations where tactical depth comes into play.

@ Gaz: Thanks. Could you pm me when you have a chance sir?

@ Swordmaster: Inspiring is a very useful rule. It forces your opponent to re roll a nerve check if it makes one of your units rout. In effect, it can keep crucial units in the fight that much longer. Coupled with battle standard bearers being very inexpensive (50 or so points, depending on race/upgrades) it is generally a good rule of thumb to have one per 500 points to have an "inspiring bubble" for a group of units.

I personally interpret this as building your army in "divisions" although there are no true organizational groupings of that size in the game. Does this make sense?

@ Gaz 2:

question 1: I won't spoil the background in the big rulebook for those who want to purchase it, but essentially a new age of the world has dawned after some cataclysmic events several hundred years previous to the current time. the races are seeing their power wax strong again, and different nations are pushing boundaries wanting to expand. further, some are just defending their empires from these incursions.

question 2: There are 7 new army lists planned. 5 of these are crossover lists, but they are not complete copy pastes of WHFB armies, and have their own, mantic added, unique elements.

Furthermore, the other 2 are mantic-unique races which have not been announced yet.

The plans as far as miniature production are to fill out existing ranges with units that did not have models, complete and ship the forces of nature and the abyss created from KoW2 on kickstarter, and otherwise have things shape up.

Finally, there is a worldwide campaign planned that will have an actual impact on the background and the battles played by gamers will make things happen.

@ Baragash: The historical lists, at least unofficially, are out there. official versions are being done which are revised and balanced reissues of these.
Happy to help and answer questions! :)

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Swordmaster » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:00 pm

Hi Lord Marcus,

Many thanks for taking time and to address my question. I am no stranger to arranging the army into divisions or task forces. The composition of such may be fixed during army list building or decided upon the particular battle with additional contributing factors such as enemy force, terrain or scenario.

What I am trying to envisage here is how these bubbles really work in the game of KoW. I actually try not to compare it to WHFB because I want to learn the game as its own, independent and self-sustained system. It has very intriguing mechanics and I believe I should start with a clean slate to enjoy it to the fullest. Even if I hope my previous war gaming experience will help me to grasp the intricacies faster.

First of all it is "only" 6" in range. It seems then that it is possible to cover only a handful of units with the bubble, especially when they are spread out. That in itself may be a good reason to have more sources of Inspire to cover larger areas or be able to send them to different regions of battle.

Second, it affects the Nerve roll which depends on the damage taken so far. Because of that, it is a different thing to take the re-roll when the unit is pretty healthy and to get yourself a chance to avoid unlucky test result (like when you get single wound for troop type and roll double 6 to be routed). And it is different when the unit is heavily damaged and the re-roll improves the chances to stay steady by a very small margin anyway.

My question then is, if I plan to organize my army around regiments and troops for better maneuverability and have two inspiring characters so far, would you recommend taking a bsb over second spell caster or war machine, for example?

As to the historic army lists, any information if these are going to cover particular period? And if yes, which one?

Many thanks in advance!
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:09 pm

If you already have two inspiring characters i would take the spellcaster or other.

As to the historical lists. i know there are lists existent for roman through to the end of the medieval period.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:27 pm

There are 10 Historical lists - I don't know whether they've been announced yet so that's all I'm saying right now. :wink:

We won't be balancing the historical lists until the second set of fantasy lists are done.

There are at least 7 not-GW ones: Brotherhood (not-Bret), League of Rhordia (not-Empire), Ratkin, Reptilians, Empire of Dust (not-TK), The Herd (Beastmen/Narnia) and Shattered Clans (not-WoC).
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Frederique » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:05 am

How do you feel about players making their own house rules?
Do you have the "these are just guidelines" attitude towards your ruleset or do you see it more like the "perfect package"? :D

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:34 am

Frederique wrote:How do you feel about players making their own house rules?


Let me just ask this SWAT team we keep on hand to make people like that disappear :P

On a personal level I'm the sort of gamer that owns a full run of Citadel Journals and used things like Elite Skirmisher upgrades and Weather Magic, and often played the scenarios published in WD etc, ran campaigns and events so I'm definitely in the "whatever floats you boat" camp.

Frederique wrote:Do you have the "these are just guidelines" attitude towards your ruleset or do you see it more like the "perfect package"? :D


Well, we'd like to think we've done a pretty good job of balancing the game, but the more games that get played, particularly if any large group takes it up as a "serious" competition, will probably lead to issues being exposed that weren't spotted during development. That's just a fact of life as the level of data builds up. No one is interested in fanatical adherence to out-of-the-box rules over ensuring everyone has a good time.

Mantic-run tournaments will be out-of-the-box to start (allies and named characters therefore allowed) with and we'll see what happens after that, past action suggests that serious issues will be comped.
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Jez [Skewtooth] » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:18 pm

Frederique wrote:How do you feel about players making their own house rules?
Do you have the "these are just guidelines" attitude towards your ruleset or do you see it more like the "perfect package"? :D


There have been some interesting suggestions for alternative rules published in Ironwatch over the years.

https://ironwatch.wordpress.com/

As with most games there are a mix of people in the community, some who like to play the rules as is and others who try and tailor the game for their own tastes.

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Frederique » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:51 pm

I am specifically wondering about how the game would be if random charges was a thing.. (8th ed hangover for me I guess) :lol:

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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Baragash » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:10 pm

Frederique wrote:I am specifically wondering about how the game would be if random charges was a thing.. (8th ed hangover for me I guess) :lol:


Good I hope :wink: (personally I prefer random charges, but I also accept that it's a subjective choice requiring a different skill set, it's not something that will be officially coming to KoW, nor will I be advocating for it).

As long as the random charge mechanism factors in a unit's base Speed then I don't think swapping that in in place of fixed charges would change the existing game balance, though you'd need to experiment with which combination of dice gave you the right range for the distance.

Ofc though, I would hope you'd have a few goes out-of-the-box before deciding you really couldn't leave it behind :P
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Re: Kings of War - Ask Me Anything!

Postby Lord Marcus » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:17 pm

I like fixed charge ranges, which work well with terrain and through-terrain charges.


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