Making Bretonnians Competitive

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Gazzor
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Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Gazzor » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:58 am

Hi all,

There is a general acceptance I believe, that Bretonnians "No longer cut it" in Warhammer.

Here's some suggestions for the new army book to help them adjust to the new gaming environment.

There's lots of work needed to bring Brets up to par, so here's some random ideas, tackling magic items first.


Magic Items:

The Locket of the Lady's Hair
The Lady of the Lake has noted with sadness that some enemies are dishonourable and attempt to kill her knights from afar. To counter this she appeared before Sir Darcy d"Farcy at a brook he was resting at and gave him this locket. As well as protecting her knights, it can show her displeasure at any Bretonnian commander using dishonourable tactics, such as missile troops. This locket since been duplicated in dozens of peasant blacksmiths across the land and now appears in 99.99% of Bretonnian Armies. Great is the Lady.

Talisman - 25 points.
Applies to units, of either side, firing in either shooting phase, when within 12" of the locket bearer, or at units within 12" of the locket bearer.
If an affected unit rolls 2, or more, 1s for it's shooting to hit rolls, then roll on the following 2D6 table and apply the effects to the unit. Non BS dependent War Machines trigger the effect on a "Misfire" on the artillery dice*, as the lady puts the boot in.
*This applies to any and all artillery dice rolled as she really really hates noisy gun powder weapons.

2D6
2 - Wrath of the Lady - "They what! They dare!?" - Remove the unit from the game. No saves of any kind are allowed and no magic items can save the affected models.
3-4 - Ire of the lady. - The unit takes 1D6 S6 hits. Units (Friend of Foe) within 3" also take 1D6 S6 hits.
5-6 - Vengeance! - The opposing player is immediately allowed to fire with one of his missile units or war machines.
7 - The Lady is Annoyed - The unit takes 1D6 S2 hits and isn't allowed to roll any more dice for to hit rolls, if any left to roll.
8-9 - The Lady Goes Nuts - The lady appears in person and kicks some members of the unit in the nut sacs. This obviously hurts, as well as surprising their allies so much that they stand dumbstruck - Unit takes 1D6 S4 hits with no armour saves allowed and the shooting phase ends immediately.
10-11 - Curse of the Lady - Unit takes 1D6 S8 hits.
12 - The Lady Weeps - Zut Alors. The Dastardly Black Knight has turned up and made the unit super shooty! Alas it is too late, as the Lady, shamefaced, turns up and breaks the misile weapons across her knee (She's got a really strong knee for breaking stone throwers and cannons as well). - All dice rolled to hit are counted as hits. Roll to wound as normal. The unit then loses the use of the missile weapons it was firing in that turn for the rest of the game.


Notes: The aim of this item is to punish enemy armies that are dependent on shooting to win, as that's no fun for anyone (Well, not the Bretonnian player anyway). Moderate shooting, such as 5 gobbo wolf riders will be okay, (most of the time). But ridiculous units, like 10 Dark Elf RXBs, will be taking the pain. Hopefully this item will change the meta game to move it away from shooting.

Also, the points cost may seem low, but remember that the Bretonnian player is affected as well, limiting his tactical options when using the feared peasant archers or trebuchet. Some Bretonnian players, with the intelligence of more than a 2 year old, may deploy their missile troops more than 12" away from the locket. Such tactical brilliance is to be rewarded.


Kiss of the Lady
The lady is prepared to well protect her knights who please her enough to earn her kiss. The Lady appears to the lucky mortal in a dream. The only trace of her in the morning is a hankerchief with a faint lipstick smudge on it, which the knight treasures to his dying day (Which will be a long way off with this item).

Talisman - 35 points
This talisman grants a ward save. The save changes dependent on the S of the attack.
S1 = 6 ward
S2 = 5+ ward
S3 = 4+ ward
S4 = 3+ ward
S5+ = 2+ ward

Notes: This item may appear to be far better than equivalent ward save items in other armies, but a few points to consider:
1) This about Bretonnians, so screw the other armies.
2) This takes up a Talisman slot, so competes with the Locket of the Lady's Hair, which is a pretty good item (The Bretonnian player could, if very smart, have another character take that item as well).
3) It is of no use against no S attacks. Banshees and Nurgle Sorcerers appear in 99.99% of Warhammer games, so obviously the lack of a ward vs no S attacks is a major weakness and balancing contributor in its points cost.


I've got lots of other great ideas to help improve the book, such as:
1) Reducing the points costs of all units by 20%
2) Giving the Griffon regeneration, 2 extra attacks and reducing its points cost by 50
3) Giving peasant bows armour piercing rule for no reason whatsoever.


So, any other bright ideas guys?


Cheers,

Gaz
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manicpsychotic

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby manicpsychotic » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:53 am

Peasant bows should have bodkins to give them the armour piercing rule (even with flaming armour piercing attacks they probably wont kill much). A little story could be added to the fluff about how the knights don't like this peasant invention for its ability to kill enemy knights before they can fight them in glorious combat, but that they enjoy seeing the added effect vs enemy missile troops whos light armour is useless against these new arrows. Followed by the inventor getting a pig for his effort and then dying of plague or some other suitable misfortune befitting a bret peasant.

Pegasus knights might as well not be 0-1 anymore. They are good but not that good by todays standards also most armies 0-1 choices are losing their 0-1 status.

A unit of knights on foot might be interesting.

The lance formation needs to change a little so its not as easy to stop it turning with harpies/furies etc.

I'm sure I could come up with more ideas but that all I can think of at the moment.

Avian

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Avian » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:24 am

:^o

It's too early in the morning for this type of silly joke.

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Herminard » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:53 am

:D

I feel Brettonnia need a minor adjustment in the magic department. Nothing too big. Here is the latest draft:

1) Make Wolfs Hunt a default spell for Damsels
2) Make it 3D6 if cast on a mounted unit
3) If cast on a unit in CC, it counts as charging.
4) Make it recastable.
5) Powerstones cost 10 points.

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby _Barbarossa_ » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:13 am

Herminard wrote::D

I feel Brettonnia need a minor adjustment in the magic department. Nothing too big. Here is the latest draft:

1) Make Wolfs Hunt a default spell for Damsels
2) Make it 3D6 if cast on a mounted unit
3) If cast on a unit in CC, it counts as charging.
4) Make it recastable.
5) Powerstones cost 10 points.


Why don't you just spill some darker inks over the bretonnian army and call them vampire counts?

Similar effect, no need to meddle with the rules :wink:
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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Herminard » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:43 am

Because I would miss the Heavy Cav core?

I sure would like to be ItP though, so I propose another minor adjustment;

1) All units with a champion get the Grail Vow for free.
2) Grail Vow = CoW Mark of Slaneesh

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Hole Dweller » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Here's some changes I'd make:
1) Blessing is 5+ versus shooting, 6+ in HtH regardless of strength. If the Bretonnian player chooses not to pray, he may add +2 to the roll for who gets to go first.
2) Men at Arms are -1 point (so 4 points each), peasant bowmen are +1 point (so 7 each). You can only have 1 unit of skirmishing bowmen for every unit of ranked bowmen. Skirmishing bowmen may not have braziers.
4) Mounted Yeomen 1 point cheaper.
5) Questing Knights get +2 S for their great weapons.
6) Peg Knights are rare, not 0-1, remove the RAF option.
7) Any Bretonnian player who says "Huzzah!" after his knights do anything automatically gets a 0 for sportsmanship.
8) Glorious Charge armywide special rule: Knightly units add +1LD during the turn they charge. If they are forced to flee for any reason, this special rule no longer applies.

I think I had some sort of reasoning behind each of those changes but I forget what it was.

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby ukrocky » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:29 pm

These are some of the single most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard, and that's coming from a bret player.

You're trying to put them level with daemons....There are one or two problems with brets and that's it;

Anti magic is a big problem as 2 damsels is really the best you can take at 2000-2500

Questing knights are still good as Constant S5 is nothing to be snorted at! If you're in the current environment, make your army Itp or re-rolls as much as possible (Grail, errant, questing...)

All units with champion get grail vow??? What?? You get champions for free AND you want army wide Itp...ye...great...

And those 2 magic items proposed are ridiculous, you've just taken the pendant from the dark elf book which is regarded as cheesy let alone on a guy who can now have a 1+ or 2+ save and make that re-rollable with gromril great helm....and the other one is pure idiocricy, brets hardly suffer much from shooting and the enemy get 1/2 turns, and your saying if you have 9 shots you deserve to die?? Prrrf

Brets are still fine, just gotta change your lists and accept you aren't a top few army...
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Renaissance Homer

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Renaissance Homer » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:21 pm

You haz been trolled...

Jokes :wink:

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby ukrocky » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:34 pm

Stoopidityyyy test mate...:P
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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Herminard » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:24 pm

:twisted:

Stavrogin

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Stavrogin » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:29 pm

There is a general acceptance I believe, that Bretonnians "No longer cut it" in Warhammer.

Dont want to flame, but...
Ur joking, right?
I mean-there are only 3 armies against brets arent considered to be competative, and around 9 against bretz are highly advanced and highly destuctable...so-ur joking, right?

squiggy

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby squiggy » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:31 pm

8-9 - The Lady Goes Nuts - The lady appears in person and kicks some members of the unit in the nut sacs. This obviously hurts, as well as surprising their allies so much that they stand dumbstruck


:lol: Gazzor, you sir are my hero.

kuroi

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby kuroi » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:25 pm

Hmm, here's my proposition, instead of fighting his opponent in honourable combat, the bretonian player is feeling lazy, and for 10 points may use a rel life hammer to simply bludgeon his opponents models, and his opponent too for that matter.

Your suggestions are so rediculously overpowered I don't even know where to begin....

Stavrogin

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Stavrogin » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:29 am

kuroi wrote:Hmm, here's my proposition, instead of fighting his opponent in honourable combat, the bretonian player is feeling lazy, and for 10 points may use a rel life hammer to simply bludgeon his opponents models, and his opponent too for that matter.

Your suggestions are so rediculously overpowered I don't even know where to begin....

Dude-i can not agree more with you. =D>

Xtapl

Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby Xtapl » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:11 pm

No worries, Rocky; it looks like you're not the only one who rolled boxcars on your stupidity test. :)

If you really want to make Brets competitive in the current game, you can just change the first line in the book to:

"All Bretonnian units follow the rules for Daemons."

Problem solved. :)

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby ukrocky » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:49 am

"All Bretonnian units follow the rules for Daemons."


=D>

But don't forget lance formation...
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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby CalBlueJames » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 pm

I'm fairly new to Wargaming, but i have managed to develope a great tactic for all you Bretonnian playing people!

In my army I always have a lot of Men-at-Arms (3 blocks of 50 or more in my normal armies) and to keep them from running away because i have very few knights in my army I put a Paladin with the Virtue of Empathy "THE KNIGHT MAY BE FIELDED ON FOOT. In addition, if he is not the army's General, Peasant units within 12" of him may use his Leadership, rather than the normal distance of 6". on foot in each unit to try and keep them from fleeing.

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Re: Making Bretonnians Competitive

Postby General Isamu » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:53 pm

I think, for having an army book that's so old, The Bretonnians actually hold up fairly well. I have a blast playing with mine. Sure there are a few things that need to be tweaked, but they don't need the complete overhaul that, say the Wood Elves need. I think some minor points adjustments, along with improved options for characters and character mounts, longbow shooting [the armor piercing idea is cool], and maybe an option for a big monster-type thing [a-la all the other new 8th ed. armies] would go a long way towards making them G2G.

Some new sculpts on the pegasus knight wings to help them rank up would be nice too.
}j


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