Looking for a new set of rules

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Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:39 pm

Looking for some inspiration. Does anybody know a good set of rules that includes or is based around a Skirmish sort of ruleset or spaceship combat, but doesn't require any 2-D representation? So not 'tabletop'.
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby AndyONeill » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:55 am

What?
Your criteria totally lost me.

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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby leopard » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:09 pm

GURPS, the advanced rules are perhaps better than the free download 'lite' ones, very good for skirmish type games as you can abstract the board away. GURPS Space has a simple starship system also.

From what you say most of the less detailed roleplaying systems would work also as few need a board and many are simple enough to allow a couple of models per side.

e.g. GURPS, for a combat character all you really need to know is ST, DX & HT (gives you the hit points, combat strength etc), add a skill with a weapon, maybe a shield - give them a weapon and a shield and away you go - have done this before as a skirmish game and it works pretty well for say ten or so models total.

For Starship combat without the table top, depends on the level of detail you want, GDW's Traveller series had a good 'non table top' starship system in it - the table top versions are a lot better but for a simple scrap where individual players matter its good - or the 'Trillion Credit Squadron' book if you want lines of battle slugging it out.


What are you thinking of running? how many models per side? era?

Sounds like one of the lighter RPG is what you want - GURPS is one of the best IMHO, certainly the most flexible as you can have high levels of detail when it matters and serious streamline it when you don't - they also have, or had a mass combat system
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby AndyONeill » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:31 pm

We used to play gurps a lot.
I think there's a totally abstract battle resolution system in there somewhere.

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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:00 am

I'm trying to set up a game system to simulate the 'positioning' aspect of positioning, but without needing a board. So if you need a 2D board to determine if you're in a flank, for example, that's right out.

These aren't bad ideas. Thanks for the responses.
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby leopard » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:16 am

Pretty much any decent roleplaying combat system will do that, without a board my need a GM though, the board essentially is in their head

Warhammer fantasy roleplay is worth a look as well
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:23 am

I like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, although it isn't good for this particular project. I like the old version and the new one. Lots.

I mostly wanted to see what sorts of rules have been invented in the past for a prototype of a game that can be played without a board, what sort of stuff represents positioning without a 2-d/3-d space. Thanks for the help.
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby leopard » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:48 pm

Well positioning without an actual board tends to be along the lines of:

"Unit 'x' is about suchandsuch a distance off to your left, they are closing fast"

You can abstract it a bit further especially for a pure close combat system, yo can measure distance in the number of rounds it will take to make contact and the direction they will approach from, and the direction is as simple is 'front', 'rear' or 'flanks'.

MegaTravellers default starship combat is abstract, there is no map, craft just slug it out.

Ranged combat is simple, e.g. you could abstract ranged combat in warhammer, all that matters is if the target is in short or long range.

Not sure what you're going for, but intrigued...


And WHFRP is amazing, almost munchkin proof almost. Only played V1 years back but loved it.
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:04 pm

Version 2 is even better. It fixes almost every problem and is really quite elegant. After playing through it, I only had to update one or two little rules (and not even for balance, just for consistency or simplified dice rolling). When I played it, I specifically commented that there are a lot of rules similar to D&D 3.5 and said that it was like they took all the mistakes and problems with the system I didn't like and fixed them; my friend then pointed out Warhammer 2.0 was out first.

I didn't believe him at first, since I refused to believe a big game system could make mistakes with such a good template for success out there to work from. But he was right.

It really rewards tactical play. Having the right skills lets you win conflicts, but they also define how you approach conflicts. It's a really neat system. I actually was thinking of having a "WHFRPG Tournament" where players are given X amount of Experience and Gold to buy characters, stat them up (with random professions, more money for a specific career advancement), and having them duke it out through a series of 'challenges', which start out as the basic 'Mordheim styled street fight' but eventually end up with more specialized challenges, like 'making a bakery beat its rival economically' or 'murder-mystery whodunit caper'. It's really that good.

The 3.0 version from Fantasy Flight is just beautiful. The FAQ and ERRATA are exactly what they should be (contrary to what GW may think) with the FAQ answering difficult but rulebook-decipherable questions while the ERRATA makes a few changes in the issues of balance. Reading the official forums and other people's experiences actually give a few suggestions for extra little changes that are minor fixes but have greatly improved gameplay stuff. And most auspiciously, FF continues to support the system, releasing new stuff in a "plug-in play" format, as well as giving you downloadable .pdf's to support ERRATA changes. It's beautiful and worth every penny.


Back on topic: my goal is to have a spaceship fight game OR a skirmish set (it's open-ended) but to abstract away positioning into different stats - something I can program online or use cards to do. I was assuming it wasn't a totally unique idea, so I wanted to see what 'the industry' had done before, since my search had come up with hundreds of games, but not this idea. I figured I could change the way I phrased it to get extra kinds of responses, which helped - using GURPs as a ruleset or cutting down other sets of rules is a good idea, which was mentioned.
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby leopard » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:36 pm

Space simulations can be good fun, working on one myself - essentially because I have and like MegaTraveller (much more than TNE), Battle Rider which is good but has its faults (it so doesn't need the map grid, and is easier without it) and various bits from elsewhere I want to try.

If you want abstract spacecraft combat you could do a lot worse than the starwars roleplay game, as with all such games no map required its all in the heads of the players - and would be pretty simple to have a deck of cards for different manoeuvres and counter moves to provide a bonus/penalty to dice.

Key bit is not to get too tied up in the design phase of the craft, just sketch out some guidelines you follow and make the players actions more important than the actual dice rolls. In space you can't hide, work on the assumption lasers etc always hit - you're rolling to see if the hit matters.

Also check out "atomic rocket' on google...
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:03 am

Nice suggestions.

The link doesn't exactly help me (I read stuff about lasers!), but it's cool to read!
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby AndyONeill » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:32 pm

There are a couple of card games for ww2 ground skirmish and air which are abstract.
They use cards.
Both players build hands as they play.
Not my cup of tea, but a few of my mates used to like the games.
Assuming they're still available, this was like 15 years back that I'm thinking of.

Think the skirmish game might have been called up front.

I've got a superheroes game is cards based.
Somewhere.

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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby The Nick » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:16 am

I just saw a review for a WW2 game based on cards in hand although it does use a map, as well as a hero-based card game. These are interesting and potentially helpful suggestions. Thanks!
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Re: Looking for a new set of rules

Postby AndyONeill » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:18 pm



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